Why I love our sleds

This was a case of misusing a lift.

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Ouch. Any difference with the electrical problems?

You have to be a proper moron to do that.* On the other hand, the sleds make it nearly impossible to get my Focus safely on the lift without causing damage to the bodywork. Not to mention they’re intrusive when working on stuff that isn’t on the centerline of the car.

I’m just glad we have a lift in the first place, to be honest, given all the fussing the board went through when it was first proposed. But I would really love to have lift arms again.

*Remember: if you try to make something idiot proof, the universe will simply invent a better idiot.

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I much prefer the 2-post lifts with triple telescoping arms that provide maximum attachment points, then the quirky, sometimes in your way, sled lift like DMS has.

The picture above is an example of someone who had no idea how to use that lift and screwed up.

These lifts are great. I have used and use a Benpak 2 post like this one:

5A1D8944-3B25-4FD9-A1F6-9A9C5E19F8ED

XPR-12CL
SKU# 5175405

12,000-lb. Capacity / Two-Post Lift / Clearfloor / Triple-Telescoping Arms

Every XPR-12CL two-post lift is designed to keep your floor clean. Our Clearfloor design offers enough space for cars and trucks up to 12,000 lbs. Pure Direct-Drive performance is matched by, cutting-edge technology, top-of-the-line materials and a design that’s ahead of its time. Fits in shops with ceilings higher than 14’.

Starting at $4660
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For the capabilities, this one has the best price point.

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Just in case you were wondering why we have “Training Required” all over the place…

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Never mind. I thought that was your WJ until I took a closer look.

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At this point in time Automotive is not interested in a Chinese made lift.

I am NOT willing to sacrifice QUALITY and SAFETY to get the “best price point”

For those that cannot figure how to properly lift their vehicles with the current lift - they are welcome to the floor space next to the lift to use the abundant supply of floor jacks and jack stands.

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I know you always put down Chinese products and that’s your prerogative. But these Bendpak lifts are solid and much better than that hazardous skid pad lift.

There is no comparison, if you think there is than that is just your close minded bias talking.

To each his own though.

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Owen,

Please explain how the current lift is “so hazardous”? I have zero issues with small cars such as mini coopers to mid size toyota 4 runners, or larger like my F150 4Wd extended cab, and countless more, so PLEASE tell me in EXACTING detail how it is so dangerous for so few to use, but easy for many.

I’m not against a pivoting arm lift - in fact I downloaded and printed the pamphlet for an ideal one for the expansion.

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Tom - It’s old as hell and therefore wearing out. When was the last time it was serviced by a professional? It damages most modern cars. It prevents access to all portions of the vehicle, thus making it hazardous as people try to work around the skids.

It’s an inferior old product compared to the modern triple arm 2 post Bendpak lift or really any triple arm 2 post lift.

What makes you think that old lift is better than the modern ones?

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Owen,

it is old, yes

lifts in general are not “serviced” when they are in service. the fluid is only changed when a seal on a cylinder leaks - this is expected every 6 to 8 years in heavy commercial use (DMS doesn’t see that in the lift).

Damage to what - the ever so delicate pinch weld? really? if that’s the argument - then I do suggest floor jacks and jack stands because those folks that don’t want to use a pinch weld can use blocking etc (which should have been covered in the lift training class).

Many unibody cars use the pinch weld as a lift point per the factory (not all).

You might want to contact Rotary lift and let them know - because they still make and sell that same lift, along with other models of lifts.

All lifts block access to portions of a vehicle - that is unavoidable. but again - if the operator is not setting the lift / vehicle correctly then it is not the lift that is at fault.

What is “wearing out” on it?

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Buddy what are you talking about. I’ve used the sled lift over 100 times at DMS and I’ve never damaged any cars. If you’d like I can give you a free refresher on using the lift so you can stop damaging your car.

The lift has actually the most uptime of most of the large tools at DMS lol

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Ok now Tom, you know as well as I do, those skid lifts are specialty lifts and old technology. You don’t see them in any modern commercial setting. There is a reason all you see are mostly 2 post telescoping arm lifts. You could argue people are just stupider now, but we know that would be a lame attempt. They are easier and safer and more effective to use.

As you mentioned, any dumbass can make a mistake and misuse any lift like the one from the OP’s pic. But a properly used pivotal arm lift NEVER damages a vehicle. But the skid lift, damages vehicles when properly being used, much less abused.

Now let’s talk about the blocking issue. That in itself is more hazardous than a pivitol lift. Even though dumbass’ use blocking on all kinds of lifts and have antidotes of using them for 50,000 years with no problems, doesn’t change the fact it’s a misuse and more hazardous. You’ve just introduced another part that could fail.

To the servicing, I would argue that we do see commercial level use at DMS. And any shop worth their salt, would at least, inspect, clean and regrease their lift yearly. This includes any telescoping arm lift. Anything else is reactive and thus not safe! Plus the Auto lift is old as hell and by definition should be checked and serviced more often. It’s old so its wearing out.

Not sure why you think the skid lift is the best option for a place like DMS or really anywhere.

I could care less what Rotary does. They are in a shrinking market, just like the milkmen that delivered to your home.

I’ll pass on that Buddy! You just keep loving your lift and I’ll love mine.

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tl;dr I like the safety record of pad lifts, but it is a problem for a lot of modern vehicles and not everything can be done with floor jacks / stands.

Don’t get me wrong, I love pad lifts for basics; they’re hard to screw up safe operation in a shared environment. But it does significantly limit what can be worked on; too many modern unibody vehicles with designated pinch welds assume a common pivot-arm lift so they can save space running components in places that would contact a pad style lift. These are vehicles designed to be lifted by the corners of the pinch welds, and nowhere else, when hoisting the entire vehicle. Pad lifts are meant for vehicles that are able to be lifted by the frame or have pinch as the lowest point of clearance.

Blocking isn’t an option on all vehicles since the pads are neither full length nor adjustable. I, for example, have to use blocks on the pinch since the pads would contact the frame in bad places (Honda for whatever reason has a bad habit of running brake lines and other things on the underside of the frame rather than alongside it). Some like myself don’t care about their appearance as long as it’s safe (it’s compressing in, not out), but others might. Should I ever install running boards it will be impossible to lift my car safely at DMS and it’s honestly been what’s stopped me from getting some. The pads won’t reach the corner designated hoist points, and with boards one wouldn’t be able to get good contact with the welds.

If another lift comes to the space, IMO a pivoting arm is the way to go. I’d be interested to see which one you’ve picked out should it be acquired. Pecking order for people taking the class should still be “if you can use the pad lift use it by default.”

But please, don’t say things like this:

It’s a massive assumption for each vehicle that comes into that bay to say it can be lifted with blocks on those pads. That lift can’t hoist Honda SUVs or pickups properly without damaging the pinch long term (and those are just the ones I can speak to experience having this issue personally, likely more).
I’ve done a lot of work on my truck that can’t be done with stands reasonably (especially given I have a bad back).
Does everything need a lift, of course not. But you try removing out large chunks of fiberglass & replacing it stainless steel plates underneath a trunk, using only jack stands. It’s not a fun time, even with a lift.

I don’t agree with Owen that our lift is dangerous / a bad lift / in dire need of service, but please don’t pretend that pad lifts work for everything. Like all tools they have their place, but there is a reason most shops don’t use them.

Regards,
~H

Just to add to this, many cars have stock ground effects that extend past the pinch seams, for aerodynamic purposes. (Chasing that .1% MPG gain everywhere they can) Getting a car with this type of rocker panel onto the pad lift safely, without damaging the plastic bodywork, is an exercise in frustration and balance at best- a functional impossibility at worst. I was only barely able to get my Focus lined up to use the pads with blocks in a way that was both safe and unlikely to damage the vehicle. The issue is compounded since many vehicles now have pinch seams that aren’t structurally integral across the full length, only at a pair of jack points on each side- assuming they have integral pinch seams at all. Some cars rely on the unit frame rail ends to be jack points, rather than the unwelded pinch seams. On the other hand, some cars don’t have reinforced unit frame rails at all, so you literally have about 2 inches of structurally sound lift point to play with. Telescoping arms can reach these easily, but the lift pads may not be able to do so in every circumstance.

On the other hand, this type of lift is extremely easy to safely use with body-on-frame vehicles, as well as SUVs with full-length reinforced unit frames. (I’m looking at you, Jeep Grand Cherokee)

Of course, all of that being said, the type of lift we have is totally compatible with telescoping arms. The lift frame and pickup is the same across both types, with the arms being an option selected at the time of purchase. As of 2015, we had 6 lifts functionally identical to the DMS lift at the Honda dealer I worked at, alongside 26 telescoping-arm lifts, and a 4-post lift for good measure. All 6 pad lifts were installed in the express section, since they typically have shorter setup time, making them advantageous for oil changes, tire rotations, and other minor services. We could not use them on Civic Si’s and S2000s, however, due to the aforementioned ground effect issue. The only difference between any of them was whether they had pads or tele-arms- again, just an option package. Of the 32 2-post lifts, 30 were Bendpak and 2 were Rotary. The only time we had a lift down while I was there, it was one of the older Rotary lifts, which had been in the shop since the 1980s, and the issue was electrical in nature. These lifts are very simple and sturdy. Buying from a trusted manufacturer like Rotary or Bendpak is worth the money, if only for the knowledge that your lift will last literally decades.

I’ll also say, DMS doesn’t get anywhere near commercial use out of our lift. Those express bay lifts were up and down all day from 8am to 8pm, 6 days a week, usually once every 20 minutes. And they never gave us any problems- the failed Rotary was in the main shop. Service schedule was 2-3 years, apart from occasionally greasing the arm pivots.

I think the current lift is fine, but if we get to have a second lift as part of the expansion, I strongly believe it should be of the telescoping arm variety, though we’d need to have additional certification to use that lift, since the lift training until now (obviously) hasn’t touched on safe use of this type of lift. Something to think about when the time comes.

Can this be a teachable moment instead of a shaming/argument over the merits of something DMS doesn’t own? The pad lift and sleds are what there is to work with right now, can y’all reinforce how to make sure this doesn’t happen to others instead.

The lesson is, as ever: don’t be an idiot when moving thousands of pounds of stuff around.

If you are incapable of not being an idiot, don’t use the lift, regardless of what type it is. Instead, find a hobby that won’t get you or those around you killed, such as basket weaving or decorating your helmet.

I am reminded of watching cats “problem-solve”. Unless it’s something they’ve learned how to do, their approach is one of constant iteration until the solution is discovered or they decide the activity will not turn a profit.

The pad skids greatly reduces the potential for f_ck ups since pretty much any vehicle that you can get over the skids - and ensure that the wheels have sufficient clearance - is going to lift safely in the sense that COG will be within the envelope that the lift can handle and the skids will engage with structural support on the way up. There’s potential to screw up bodywork immediately rolling on or on the way up of course, but that’s not of great concern to the lift itself. Pinch weld stress is probably not going to manifest itself until some time after the lift.

Contrast this with a telescoping-arm lift where so many more things have to go right in order to lift a vehicle and I can appreciate why there might be some reluctance to obtain one.

Speaking from experience with my past and present vehicles…

  • 2008 Mazda 3 - no difficulties, lifted the vehicle numerous times
  • 1996 Ford F150 - too heavy / never attempted
  • 2003 Ford Ranger - looked to have body work dangling below the frame that I didn’t want to mess with the one time I thought I’d need to lift it
  • 2018 Subaru WRX - not sure the body work will clear the pads just rolling onto the lift; some sort of elevation fore and aft of the skids could alleviate this problem, but that’s getting a tad involved. Regardless of the roll-on/roll-off problem it would surely need some jack pads just to gain elevation so the skids don’t mess with the side skirts lifting it.

I’d like to see a telescoping-arm lift but realize its use is another matter entirely vs the skid lift we have now. Perhaps users would need to demonstrate knowledge of their particular vehicle(s) to use? But that might be more administration than the 'Space wants to bother with.

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