Why I am such a Non-Member Rebel...so far

Off Topic
#1

This was spurred from a direct question posted here… Open Tour - Digital Media Room - I need Member help

One of the reasons I hesitate in paying to become a member at this time is that I have only been actively attending classes and participating in the forums for about 2-3 weeks. I haven’t quite had enough time to find out if I want to ‘pay for the privilege’ of hanging out with other people and/or offering to teach free classes.

This is something that I read into the website as well as the feel I get from talking with others that Dallas Makerspace is for the public and contributing to a greater good or something larger than yourself. This in itself doesn’t seem like it needs to be paid for.

Another reason might be that I don’t forsee using the equipment available at the 'space… right now. Maybe sometime in the future and at that point I might pay $50 as a price to accomplish something I am needing to get done.

I also think it is strange that if I can help an organization save or make $1,000 why would I need to pay $500 to be allowed to do so…? What if as a guest I held some paid training classes that brought 10-20 outside guests to the 'space every month and helped gain 1-2 new members every month from it?

As I spend more time with the people who run the 'space and participate in the committees I am sure at some point I might feel obligated to donate $50 per month and not care that membership allows me to do anything more than at least walk in the front door any time I like without a babysitter.

But for now I like that I am testing what the website says which is the public doesn’t NEED to become a member and is welcomed to contribute and donate in any way they can… (from the website)

How Can I Help?

Dallas is a tough city for community-based projects like a Makerspace. To survive we need all the help we can get. Here are a few ways you can help us out:

  1. Become a member, there’s strength in numbers.
  2. Make a donation to help us buy tools and equipment.
  3. Teach a class, any type of class.
  4. Sponsor an activity or event.
  5. Volunteer your time to maintain tools and workspace.
  6. Tell others about us, put up flyer; see our public relations page
    for more ideas.
  7. Organize a fundraiser, or research and apply for grants, contact
    [email protected] for more info.
  8. Get involved!

I’m definitely all over #8. I’ve done #2. Plan to do #3 here soon. I’m sorta helping with #5 trying to lend a hand assisting in anything behind-the-scenes running of the 'space.

I’m just seeing how far I or anyone else can go without ‘paying’ to be a member. :wink:

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Open Tour - Digital Media Room - I need Member help
#2

I see it a little differently.

There are multiple benefits flowing from the space, and many people find a variety of purposes for their participation. But ultimately, its a place for people that like to make things.

In order to provide the location and tools needed to enable people to make things, the Space charges a membership fee, which supports the cost of maintaining the space, the tools, and the various activities hosted there. I pay this fee gladly, because it gives me access to the tools I need to make the stuff I want to make, and because I support the principles of the Maker movement in general, and the Dallas Makerspace in specific.

What I see in what you’re posting, is that you’re primarily interested in the social aspects of the space, want to be a part of it, contribute, but don’t want to pay your fair share of the costs via a member fee. I think there are any number of things you could do for the space, and lots of people to welcome your desire to participate and contribute. But I’m not sure how that can happen, until you become a member, and can actually walk in the front door unescorted.

You’re clearly interested, and clearly want to participate. Why not bite the bullet, and establish your bona fides? You might even discover that making stuff is a blast.

6 Likes
#3

I totally get the ‘maker’ side of things. I am a ‘maker’, just not a consistent one and typically I find myself buying the tools I need when I do stuff, but obviously not big expensive machines.

Like I said I am sure I will become a member and pay the $50 just to get free access to the building without a member having to follow me around. Right now though… Just as I am seeing with the board of directors I need to justify expenses/costs for the value received. :wink:

…as for the creepy factor. Well I am not all hurt over that comment at all. I know you are just using tongue in cheek humor, but… as I said above. I have only been here 2-3 weeks and it would seem I DO have to be a member and am being asked to become one very early on.

Some other prospective new members might not like that feeling, especially ones who might not have the same budget or financial means to justify the ‘donation’ right away.

#4

It’s interesting that you only list one direct question as to the reason for this thread. I’ve seen a few threads where what your intentions/motives are have been directly questioned. You have expressed an interest in getting “more involved in the management of the Dallas Makerspace” but in that same post the $50/month is more than you care to spend. Seems odd for a person who finds themselves buying the tools they need when they make stuff. You want to enjoy all the “free” classes but seem to hang out a lot more than just at the class.

I too have only been here 2-3 weeks. While I had to take a look at household budget to make sure we could afford the membership, I signed up and felt in no way pressured to join. I wanted to be a part of the group, and support DMS so I gladly worked it out.

From your comments, you seem to think you can save or make $1,000 for DMS, and seem to imply you should be offered a free membership. At least that’s how it reads to me.

1 Like
#5

To be frank, I just find your willingness to delve deep in to the inner workings of the organization without being a member off putting.

Maybe it is the overtly practical engineer in me… I don’t see why, without an ulterior motive (and I’m not saying you have one), anyone would devote time and effort to improve an organization which they don’t believe is meaningful enough to join.

If it is an affordability thing, maybe you qualify for the starving hacker rate. If it is some other fiduciary consideration unrelated to affordability… I can’t really help there. No one deserves a free ride if they can afford it, no matter how much work they do. You have to keep the lights on.

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#6

I think you’ll ultimately find this difficult to do without being a dues-paying member. You are excluded from the member meetings, as well as the board meetings, not allowed to operate equipment, etc. etc.

#7

Not true there. They’re both open to the public. It’s really a question of getting in the door and having a sponsor if you want to teach a class and use equipment.

TECHNICALLY: We don’t unlock the doors for BoD meetings, but they’re not closed to the public AFAIK.

#8

The description on the calendar seems to imply that the membership meeting was closed to the public. But I can’t find anything to that effect in the bylaws, so you’re likely right.

"This meeting includes one or more brief presentations from makerspace members as well as introductions of visitors and general announcements. Afterwards we will hold our official monthly structured meeting. Doors open at 7pm and the meeting starts at 8:00pm.

The first part of this meeting is open to the public."

#9

Rules - Code of Conduct
Only as part of class can tools be used. Just being with a member isn’t enough. See #3. This has been mentioned in past Talk threads.

Guests
1.Guests can not inhabit the Dallas Makerspace without another keyed Member present.
2.Guests are encouraged to become Members.
3.Guests are not allowed to use tools and equipment, except as part of a scheduled class/workshop.
4.Members are responsible for their Guests and their actions.

#10

sigh

I think I will take a step back now…

#11

If you are truly coming at this from an experimental perspective, then I
applaud your intriguing methodology. I wish you luck, regardless.

Sincerely,
Tim Nielsen

#12

FWIW, I DEFINITELY wouldn’t take what anyone says on forums as a reason not to continue showing up etc. Your help in streaming the BoD meeting for instance last night was MUCH appreciated.

Honestly, I think it’s more that we’ve just never seen a situation quite like this, and I think it confuses people. It’s also possible that your third post with the comment “I would love to get more involved in the management of the Dallas Makerspace” combined with the fact that MAYBE your avatar name sounds close to “ControlFreak” might have possibly scared some people? (looking at your YT etc. makes it clear you’re an industrial controls guy, but the name is funny in any event :laughing:)

I wouldn’t put much stock in any of that though and you shouldn’t feel scared off or anything.

5 Likes
#15

I think Kent makes several solid points here. Talk tends to be that: talk. If you’re enjoying the in-person experience, don’t let any negativity here sway you. Y’know, unless Talk is a big part of your enjoyment.

I know I helped start this thread by supporting Dan’s question, which, after a bit of watching you work I felt was legitimate toward learning the whys and wherefores. I THANK YOU for answering that.

I think it’s a sad commentary that apparently none of us has any experience with true philanthropy, which you have given no indications to counter is your goal. Although my opinion is sh!t, I welcome you and your efforts to improve the 'Space and, as long as you are okay with attending only open-door activities and/or being accompanied, I say “Welcome!” at no financial outlay on your part. When the day comes you want to come and go as you please, use stuff on your own, etc. I gotta say you gotta pay, but until then I think we should lay off, and stop treating you like a pinata.

#16

I welcome non-member “guests” to teach and volunteer. I teach classes on the laser cutter and 3D printers for non-members but that’s generally in hopes that they will join to use the tools. I think the confusion is most people want to use the tools of the space, have access to rooms without a chauffeur, and have voting rights. I do appreciate you coming in and helping with the live stream video, I just personally think if you want to contribute to the space and you can afford it, $50/mo isn’t a bad way to contribute. I think just having access to 500mbps FiOS 24/7 is reason enough.

1 Like
#17

Hey pachuco rebel, I totally respect your careful evaluation of whether or not DMS membership is worth it or not and whether you can benefit from it without paying a full membership. I think one can really gain a lot from attending the classes, reading the forum and just talking to members without paying the membership.

I would recommend however that you do not take DMS for granted. It is very new and it is a different way for people who have the ability and desire to make things to interact. I recommend you look through the history of DMS through the minutes of the meetings starting with the first notes 2/18/2010. It started with just a few people who have made some good decisions to make DMS what it is today. And it is getting better, you might just still be able to get on the ground floor of something that will really be spectacular. I also see that DMS is fragile and a few bad decisions could really screw it up.

My life experience has been growing up with little resources but supported in working hard and thinking creatively to put things together in a way that served me well. I have not found many people can do this but DMS is where I have found a lot of people who are doing this. I like DMS, I have benefited from it and I am going to do what I can to keep it going.

Hopefully, ojale, my essay is helpful to you.

1 Like
#18

I kind of get it, although I think I have a different perspective. And maybe this is a bit tangential, but it’s been on my mind lately

I joined in January and have set foot in the 'Space perhaps 6 times; calculating how much it has cost me to make that RFID reader beep in approval each time is an exercise I don’t engage in. It can be overwhelming stepping into the place and watching things going on. For me, this is compounded by the fact that I can be a bit reserved and I’ve learned that what initially drew me here will take a heck of a lot more skill development than I realized.

But in spite of this, people are still friendly and will sometimes help usher you into things. I last showed up on the 17th because Pierce was doing T-shirt screen printing. I lingered about briefly, jumped into the conversation, then was instructed in how to apply the dye for my own “makersloth” T-shirt that I wore with some satisfaction the next day. Afterwards I wandered over to VECTOR where Nick engaged me - a total stranger - with conversation about pinball machines, their design theory, maintenance, and some ideas people were kicking around for refurbishment. Despite having only a passing interest in pinball and arcade machines and no investment in them, I might drop by on occasion to see what it’s about and get involved by being sucked in.

Otherwise, my list is like yours. I did #2 on NTX Giving Day. I’d like to do #3 - got an idea or two that I need to flesh out. And I’d like to do #5 since I’ve always had this weird thing about the meta of something more than the actuality of it. And of course #8 is kind of a given.

3 Likes
#19

I’m a member of makerspace for the dance parties, fire breathing, secret conversations over deep spiritual growth, and access to the wealthy elite of San Francisco. Oh wait…I think I’m talking about burning man.

To each their own @TheControlsFreak if you want to join do so if not thats ok too.
You do you and we won’t beg for your cuddles.

I hope to see you get involved. We are a group of positive minded, open thinking people who work towards the idea of better and you seem like someone who would fit in well. We are also a group of opinionated, openly questioning people and I think you fit in well in that spot too.
Cheers to the weekend people!

5 Likes
#20

I’d agree with @Kentamanos saying you shouldn’t let the stuff on the forum get to you.

On another note, if you want to help and not have the financial burden of $50 a month, you could teach a class a month and get honarium. If my math works out membership+honarium=$0.

AND we really like full class calendars so that would be helping a ton.

Ima be honest I stopped reading a lot of the longer posts in this thread.

Thanks for your help with the board meeting. It definitely turned out better than our previous attempts by a long shot.

6 Likes
#21

So I am back from travelling for work and don’t expect to be out of town for a few months so… I am NOW a member.

Since I have paid my $50 for the month, I guess I am now allowed to help assist the DMS in accomplishing its goals and broadening its reach to the community. Cool…

Now where do I get the keys to this place?

10 Likes
#22

There are key cards in the lockers in the kitchen. Anyone who is already a member can add the key card number to your account through Maker Manager (web application). This typically happens on Thursday evenings during open house but if you’d like to do it sooner I’m sure someone could assist. If nobody else chimes in I’d be happy to meet you and get a key card for you, I live not far from the makerspace.

1 Like