I’m trying to get a 1 on 1 lesson from someone and they are worried about getting in trouble for accepting payment. Who could I speak to in order to get explicit permission for this?
To my knowledge neither DMS nor any committee has any rules about not accepting payments for 1:1 sessions.
Can anyone on the BOD speak to this?
Last time BoD took this up was back in 08-2020 (about six months ago):
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20200806#Pay_To_Play
The agenda item was tabled (not voted up or down) and was then disappeared from subsequent meeting agendas without explanation (at least to the best of my ability to find).
The only meaningful restriction being discussed at that time was re: direct member-to-member payment for required tool training. It is, was, and would have been no matter the outcome of that vote, OK for member-to-member payment for any other teaching/training, e.g. a make-n-take class or a mentoring session.
Since no actual vote in support of the motion ever occurred, it would seem it is still OK for member-to-member payment for required tool training. This, though, would seem to imply that committees and their chairs – who are generally responsible for determining what tools under their remit require training, what that training looks like, and who is authorized to do said training – can therefore determine if private so-called “pay-to-play” arrangements are kosher, as far as any specific committee is concerned.
Of course, it raises the obvious question: if someone is willing to teach a required training class to one member in return for payment, why not just submit a regular class via honorarium system and teach a whole group of members?
I can think of a lot of reasons why.
- When you’re teaching 1:1 your timing is more flexible and you can schedule for a time that appeals to both of you but might not to a whole class.
- If something comes up you’re only negotiating to reschedule with one person as opposed to a whole class.
- You’re only having to focus on social distancing from one person.
- You can customize the class based on the one student’s knowledge and work at their speed and/or go further in depth than you might have time to when you’re working with a group of students.
While we should definitely be encouraging larger classes for obvious reasons, I think that 1:1 tutoring is a valuable tool. One could possibly argue that 1:1 teaching shouldn’t be for pay, but if we’re claiming our member’s time is valuable enough to offer an honorarium we can’t turn around and say that its not valuable enough to ask for money to teach someone a skill.
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The class would indeed be for tool certification and the person explained to me that is is around a 4-6 hour process which is why they are not willing to teach a group for the honorarium payment. I feel like this is reasonable personally, and I am willing to pay them for their time. I also understand the argument against it as the “pay to play” model does in some ways limit access to tools. However as things stand now nobody has been certified on this particular tool in a full year so access is limited regardless. I will speak to the chair for the particular committee in regards to this. Obviously I would prefer an equitable solution where everyone is given free access and instructors are duely compensated for their time and experience, but I also see a pay to play system as preferable to a tool sitting idle.
What tool is it?
Not to mention if relying on the honorarium you are left hoping 3 people actually show up. I have taught classes where 6 signed up and only one showed so I went down there and didn’t get the honorarium even for doing the lesson
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I don’t know for sure, but it sounds like the Multicam.
Yes. Multicam is what I need
Is it a must know tool right now? We are working on getting training ready so classes can be taught. Are you planning to use it regularly in the near future? If not, I’m sure one of us can help you cut stuff that you need.
Yes I will be regularly using it in the near future, as soon as possible. I am currently doing all of my work by hand using the table saws and a hand router but the CNC will allow me to significantly streamline the process. I am also looking to get the skill of course for other projects and just my own learning. However it will literally save me a dozen hours of work or more a month as soon as I can learn it.
I realize you do a lot of plastics, so please be aware there was/is an additional class/endorsement required for cutting plastics on the Multicam. This is one of the reasons the new Shapeoko XL in the plastics sig has gained so much support. There are lots of hoops to jump through to fully use the big machine. As far as I know, there are only a few of us certified for plastics and I know of no one left that teaches that class. Good luck!
P.S. For the Multicam SIG members information. Hanna seems to take her projects very seriously and takes care of the equipment. She would be an excellent candidate to become plastics certified if anyone can legally train her on the topic. I might still have Tappers slides to work off of.
I seem to recall a rule or guideline that suggested if a class wasn’t being taught on the regular for a machine then that requirement dissolved.
That might be a good rule for somethings. If a machine requires training, costs over $500, and can injure people that policy might not hold water. I remember when the Haas wasn’t training for a while, could you imagine the results? The Multicam hasn’t had classes for some time, should we just disable the lockout? I understand your point and why this was floated(forces classes), but I’m not sure all equipment would benefit from this. How about most of the machine shop? Ready to let people hop on the lathes or Bridgeports without training? Safety first:)
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Most of the machine shop has had a class taught in the last 6 months…
Big believer in classes as I have taken lots of them. But I tend to draw the line at two main points. Can an untrained user damage the equipment, and can the equipment damage the user. Wood-shop has trouble keeping sanders operational. I think you would agree that the Multicam is an order of magnitude more complex and could maim a user.
The Shapeoko XL in the plastics sig will not only address this issue, but lower the barrier to entry for hundreds of other members to enjoy making with acrylics. The plastics SIG could very well become one of the top Sigs in the building since so many other committees will be able to utilize the resource.
I expect you are playing devil’s advocate, which I support, as we have an unexpected opportunity to reexamine and adjust all of the policies at DMS due to the lower membership and utilization rate. No policy should continue without being drenched in sunlight, fully discussed and reaffirmed. Many policies sound great when implemented, but don’t pan out as anticipated, or actually cause more harm in pratice.
There has also been a number of one-on-one or classes taught that got folks qualified. Not just machine machine shop.
I think in the case of the multi-cam, I and many others that took the class just before the Plague hit, are “stranded” in that I know of no way to take the skill demo test. @Team_Woodshop: Is there a way that other qualified MC users can do the check out?
The proposal that if something isn’t taught then anyone can use it has been put before the BoD a number of times. To my knowledge, never has passed. Committees uniformly have opposed it. Especially for high dollar damage to equipment can occur.
Training right now is of course greatly delayed because of Covid.
Devil’s advocate or not, the concept that one machine is held hostage by no available training is unreasonable and quite unacceptable. This isn’t a one, two, three or even 6 month thing.We are at a year. The last class taught for this was 2/20/2020.
Committee opposition or not. This needs to change.
Where are the training materials for this machine? Does woodshop have them? If so please post up their location. A moddle class can be made for the learning/lecture portion.
Actually, Wood shop is in the midst of setting up so that there can be Multicam instruction. They just haven’t gotten there yet.
Yeah I really don’t think just saying anything goes is a good solution… Honestly something this complicated would be insane to just let anyone hop on. Even something as simple as a 3D printer benefits from having uniform teaching to make sure expectations and rules are understood.
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