Manson’s marketing gimmick is a potty mouth, but his insights are usually pretty accurate. I read his stuff often.
The DMS talk also has its own version of Godwin’s law
For us it is: “When were you last at the makerspace?” or “If you spent more time at the makerspace…”
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You should absolutely be flagging those posts as inappropriate or flag them as “something else” which will let you send a PM to the mods explaining why you think the post doesn’t fit our code of conduct. The mods don’t/can’t read every post, that’s why we have the flag system.
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To be fair to Talk you just happened to join at a pivot point when someone for reasons known only to God decided to kick a very large ant hill re:honorarium in the midst of it. My husband just reminds me flame wars amongst a “nerd herd” are to be expected and isn’t it nice we all feel so passionately about our happy place.
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@larsgars, what you are seeing is passion. It is a good thing. If we were not this passionate, we would not have a makerspace for you to join. You shouldn’t shun this. It is better to have passionate people bumping heads than dead forums and no one willing to lead or take on responsibility. If you want the latter, pop by your local library, you will see what that mentality builds. Quiet large empty spaces for adults to use a day care for a few hours after school lets out.
I prefer the DMS, Tools, Classes, and almost no barriers to tackling any project you would like. Try doing any of that anywhere else, it isn’t available.
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That’s the only reason I joined. I personally agree that overall this is a great community and I wish I had found this place earlier. Obviously there is a difference between a difference of opinion and being rude. I was speaking of the latter. Seeing how nasty people have gotten with each other over honorarium is an example I’ve seen. To me, this doesn’t look good. Non members take classes to see how we are. Some fight about money in our open forum and now I’m exposed to a part of MS I didn’t even think was an issue. Maybe money disputes should be in a private members only forum?
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If you see the lock on the category, it means it is a private category and non-members should not be able to see it.
I think someone needs to be able to take apart the conversations in a neutral way and explain how it is considered nasty. Many people do not consider this nasty or the more common word thrown around is toxic. This discussion over this is far from new. I don’t think anyone has ever broken it down to an understandable level. Mainly what we get is … it feels nasty rather than constructive suggestions on specific instances or examples of instances.
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Nonmembers cannot see this and frankly with something this big written open forum is exactly the venue. Nobody can play “telephone” and misrepresent my stance or insert color commentary/summarize without it being clear they did so. Posterity is not to be underestimated either. If you search back this is not the first rodeo on this topic. For someone new it can provide context to see what came before
An important perspective to take when looking at Talk is the DMS itself is the project we are working on here. The arguments and bickering are the sawdust and splinters of making a Makerspace. Just like no project is without mistakes, frustration and a bit of a mess, making the Makerspace is a frustrating and messy process at times.
The DMS is completely unique in the world. We are the largest, by number of members, makerspace in the USA that is funded by its membership. We have an extremely democratic and public decision making process. We have no employees.
We don’t have anyone to model off of as many of the issue we are dealing with have not been dealt with by any other Makerspace. In fact the DMS has been used by a number of other Makerspaces as the model that they base themselves off of.
Welcome to the sausage factory 
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Here are a few threads talking about Toxic or Nasty Talk
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/member-meeting-to-discuss-problems-with-talk/51258
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/why-must-we-always-go-through-this-cycle/51908
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/the-poison-of-talk/39944
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/poll-are-you-satisfied-with-the-current-state-of-talk/51861
Here are a few Dumpster Fires for analysis
Andrew LeCody banned
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/andrew-lecody-banned-from-dms/52893
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/former-director-and-longtime-member/52270
Expansion contracts
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/my-recent-concerns/50880
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/explaining-non-disclosure-agreements-nda/51161
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/vote-of-no-confidence-in-expansion-work/51123
Firearms rules
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/discussion-for-proposed-firearm-rule/35851
- https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/interim-ban-on-all-firearms-work/36658
- More discussion on the ATF and Fire Marshal rulings
Selling Space Bus
DMS Credit Cards
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Ah, yes, this is on the inside, welcome to the big boisterous (mostly) happy, (somewhat disfunctional) family. Takes awhile to get used to, after a bit you can see who the players are and it makes more sense. I think you have a good point, when in doubt, try to be kind, especially online where it’s hard to read tone.
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Not gonna lie this is EXACTLY why I stopped doing tours and trying to promote makerspace. Don’t get me wrong, I still love it. I’ve been a member for over 2 yrs now and use to give tours on Thursday so I could share my excitement about our “happy” little community. After being exposed to the (for the lack of a long description ) bull•••• that goes back and forth between the board, departments and individuals on what one can describe as a ■■■■■■■ match…I got tired of feeling like I was lying to the future makers about how great we were. In my time here, the community has, in alot of ways, strayed far from how it was when I first joined. I understand the growth, expansion, stress and so on…but there is a clear political bias amongst members, departments and boards that shows itself here quite a bit. So I feel ya bud, now Im part of the “head down, headphones in, don’t bother me” group of makers Im starting to see more of.
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Much of the responses focus on talk, but there is one sentence of yours that I don’t think has been adequately addressed. Also, I’m not sure my response addresses the crux of your complaint but I still think it’s worth saying.
This us a member-run organization, and often times the “powers that be” are you and me. Machine shop, for example, has a longstanding rule that every member has the authority to ban another member from the area for refusing to wear eye protection.
When it comes to member safety and actions that can damage the equipment, it is collectively all of our responsibility to make sure that the rules are being followed. I’ve called out instructors for not wearing required PPE in woodshop before, and I would expect the same from every other member.
An accident isn’t going to wait for a committee chair to show up and prevent it is what I’m saying.
That being said, this doesn’t give anyone an excuse to be a jerk either. However, some members are just loutish boors, and what I feel isn’t intentional. Just as I shouldn’t be mad if a blind person stepped on my toes, I try not to be mad when some of those are less well-mannered than I’d like. Some days that’s easier than others.
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To address the couple of posts regarding passion and healthy discourse; I think a lot of that is perspective and likely boils down to personality differences in perception. You could almost say its primarily an introvert vs extrovert issue. My 2 cents (worth exactly what you paid for it)-
Have you ever considered how you, the extrovert who is passionate and expressive, can severely damage your credit with an introvert who isn’t fond of (what they consider) uncivil discourse? What you consider a healthy way of discussing a topic is, to them, a highly toxic manner of conflict resolution. You’ll find that most introverts at DMS are just as passionate about their areas as you are, but in order to change a mind they believe in logical, unpassionate (read angry), discourse which lays out the pros and cons. If after one or two exchanges you cant come to a common ground, then most of them will back off realizing that you aren’t going to consider their argument in lieu of “yelling” and “browbeating” them into submission of your point. You end up walking away feeling victorious while not actually changing their mind, and meanwhile they have just lumped you into the -douche canoe- category who shall only be ignored in person at the space. Its sad really because you both had some great ideas that, when combined, could have made a great process.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this last post. We should all strive to be better humans and doing otherwise only reduces our credibility. When reading through posts of those that haven’t quite matured yet, it can be a real challenge to look past the childish antics and see the passionate, creative ideas underlying most of the more contentious debates. If I had turned away from these threads or helped to ban those individuals, I would have missed out on a great opportunity to learn. I don’t take comments from these individuals personal. I don’t feel the need to argue back and forth when someone disagrees with me. I make my statement for all to read and embrace those that challenge me even if they do so in a childish way. I do agree that some of these rude and argumentative people need to work on their life skills and I think it is helpful to remind them from time to time. I also think that each of us should strive to look past these tactics and try to understand the underlying ideas; another life skill to learn.
If it is any consolation for those that just grow tired of the antics, you can easily filter out the “DMS General” and “DMS Members Only” categories. The other categories are moderated with a much heavier hand “most” of the time.
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you can easily filter out the “DMS General” and “DMS Members Only” categories. The other categories are moderated with a much heavier hand “most” of the time.
This should be how the forum is for everyone imo. Should have to filter in the toxic side. Let the artistic side nurture front facing. Don’t feed the trolls.
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But then DMS would be denying most the opportunity to learn the valuable life skill of tolerance for those with slightly less evolved debate techniques. 
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