I’m sure this is a rather controversial statement among this group but I’m attending this talk later today and am interested to see what they have to say. I also might get a word in edge-wise.
"Is engagement in DIY activities a type of antimarket bias? Join us TODAY for a luncheon event featuring Ryan Murphy at State & Allen in Uptown. His counterintuitive but insightful talk will be on “The Financial Imprudence of Do-It-Yourself”. Murphy, a senior research fellow at the O’Neil Center for Global Markets and Freedom, has written on this issue in a variety of places, including this piece for the Independent Review. Essentially, he argues that if you are good enough at a task that you’re willing to do it for free, you should be willing to do it for payment. Otherwise, you should outsource that task.
Whether you agree or not, Murphy’s talk should be good fodder for conversation, so be sure to RSVP! As usual, a complementary lunch will be provided, and free covered parking is available in the lot attached to the restaurant. The event will run from 12:00pm – 1:30pm, and will include plenty of time for both networking and Q&A."
If you happen to be in Uptown at noon, you should join. Otherwise I can take notes and report back on how this goes.
wait wut? This didn’t make any sense to me, so I found the article he wrote. Maybe I’m just not smart enough to understand but saying “you can just work an extra hour to earn the money to pay someone else to do the thing you can do yourself” assumes you have the ability to work an extra hour, that your time is worth the same at “work” as it is at home, and that it’s even practical to find someone to pay to do the thing you can do. Or even worse, get off work from you day job, then work for someone else to do that thing because it’s your comparative advantage? yikes. I dunno, I don’t get it.
I value my time at a highly variable rate, depending upon the task at hand, its novelty and enjoyability, and what else I have going on in my life at that moment. Woodworking, blacksmithing, small drywall/painting tasks, yard work (within reason), running a chainsaw, et al are valued at perhaps $0.50/hour. For more onerous tasks (e.g. plumbing outflow repairs, washing skunked dogs, etc.), I value my time as much as $200/hour.
Making one of something challenging and fun: $0.50/hour. Making ten of the same thing after the “fun” has rubbed off, probably $40-100/hour. Making something for someone else, as a paid job? You probably can’t afford me, but I might make it for you for free.
Also that you derive no other benefit from making it yourself. If I made it, I know exactly what it’s made of, I know how to fix it should it break, and I gain or practice a skill set through the act of making it and probably had a good time doing it.
Seems a rather myopic view by the speaker. Also I don’t make $1,000 an hour which is easily how much some hardwood furniture goes for so there’s that too.
I help folks with their automotive problems because it is therapeutic for me. Current rates for a great “shrink” are in the $400 plus/hour range & a honest mechanic is even tougher to find !
This is a “win win” for both the motorist and myself.
There’s plenty of things were it makes sense to buy vs build and vice-versa, but the line is different for everyone. I’ll totally build my own desktop PC, because it’s easy, cost effective and I get a good product, but I’m not going to build my own laptop, because it would be expensive, clunky and probably an awful product.
I’m sensing a variation of the old economics comparative advantage example along the lines of …
Tim is a lawyer who can bill $200 an hour providing legal services. Tim can also type at 100WPM. Tim could hire a typist for $30 an hour that can only type 50WPM - what should Tim do?
Naturally, providing legal services is markedly more profitable for Tim, thus he should hire a typist for his typing needs despite the fact that he's the better typist.
But that’s a simple business decision that happens during the workday. Much DIY happens during one’s leisure time. As @Webdevel has stated, there may not be the opportunity to make more money in the form of overtime or additional compensated work for one’s own employer (i.e. you’re salaried).
And as @HankCowdog has mentioned, you’ve got to do something during your leisure time - might as well be interesting even if you could get paid to do it. Or as I recall George Lucas once said, one of the goals in life is to enjoy doing things poorly - which he clarified to mean to be able to do things for their own sake rather than profits, critical acclaim, or some other form of intrinsic reward.
I often look back at my shed-building experience. Sure I could have hired the work done, but the summary cost would surely have been similar - for an inferior product - and the nature of leisure time being what it is, I would have spent even more money entertaining myself.
This is a huge misconception of the Four Hour crowd and people who criticize others for trading time for money.
Sure, if I’m an in-demand personal trainer or something like that, I could add another hour or two to my day and get paid more.
W-2 exempt workers don’t have that option, unless they have a side hustle.
My personal feeling about this line of reasoning is that it works well for some people, and is guilt-inducing head trash for others. Figure out what camp you’re in, and be happy either using or discarding this advice.
Ok, the event is over and I took a lot of notes & pics. Will summarize them later and share. I’m not known for my debate skills but I can at least share where he was coming from.
I did a quick search on Four Hour crowd and even after filtering out “marathon” and “twenty-four” can’t find anything obvious to define the term. Can you explain that term?
There was a time almost 20 years ago where I juggled two hourly jobs and worked 7 days or almost 60 hours a week out of unfortunate necessity. I can appreciate a willingness to forsake free time for those in circumstances of economic uncertainty.
In more recent times, I transitioned from hourly to salaried approximately 2 years ago after >10 years of being hourly and have experienced a change in motives. Additional time may now be a requirement of the job or a means to impress the boss and possibly get ahead, but there’s no additional hours nor overtime in it for me any more. I’m not aware of any side hustles where the market demand curve meets my personal supply curve that would motivate me - almost all not only cut into leisure time but will pay less than my on-paper (annual wage / 2080) and real hourly rate (annual wage / [some number greater than 2080]).
Back on topic, a click or two away from the RSVP, I found an article on the subject (PDF) from the event’s presenter that I’ve not had time to read.
I make it clear from the get go that a sense of humour is a must.
Today’s cars are going to be very very expensive repair and maintain & the manufacturers try very hard every year to make that more difficult for folks like me(or you). The shear amount of planned obsolescence that is being mandated by our fed gov(by folks that are not car people & can’t even balance a budget no less - no matter what side of fence they claim to be on) doesn’t help this fact.
Note: This is another great reason to not buy a new or newer car.
So yes, a bit of dry humour (I am half British) helps when dealing with the various situations. To each his (or her) own.
It is much better than “making more rules” don’t you think?
Cheers!
I believe this is in reference to a book called the Four Hour Workweek that’s often touted in business/entrepreneur/self help/whatever circles. I’ve not read it myself so can’t speak to the merits but I know it’s got some groupie status.
I have nothing against Tim Ferris, and enjoy his interviews.
I have issue with people who act like there’s something wrong with you for not working full time without pay to please investors. There’s a lot of of overlap in these circles.
but I’m attending this talk later today and am interested to see what they have to say. I also might get a word in edge-wise.
