Someone cancelled/rejected a class I was planning to teach

Education
#1

@Lampy

Is there a reason my LabVIEW Raspberry Pi class is not in the list to be paid?

Is there a reason my “The Wheel” class on July 6 has been cancelled? I suspect someone cancelled it because they assumed that I have made something with the wheel and so now it is not longer applicable to do more with that style wheel design. However, in this instance, that is incorrect assumption. I already have more on the way and other designs planned. It seems my company may have a few things to make from 'The Wheel"

#2

I rejected it. It is a group project and not a class: https://calendar.dallasmakerspace.org/events/view/2878

You are free to resubmit it as an event.

2 Likes
#3

@Bill

Because of the fact that anyone can make anything that they want by learning to control ‘the wheel’, it is a class. Please reinstate as appropriate.

I would also like to gain some knowledge about any rule I may not be aware of concerning the invalidation of learning material I present accoriding to DMS rulesets as I have understood them (or mis-understood as the case may be). For review, where is the proper ruleset that I, and others, need to be careful to heed.

#4

It is not appropriate.

  1. “The Wheel” is clearly a group project:
    a. “I would like to create an API”
    b. “project Botfoot.com”
    c. “However, I would like to control the wheel”
    d. “for this project”
    e. “For those interested, we have room for contributors”
    f. “such a project”
    g. “can get involved”

Everybody’s project is a learning experience. That knowledge can be shared. But that does not make the project a qualifying class.

9 Likes
#5

@Bill

There is no rule in the bylaws that allows you to invalidate my class because you don’t like it. And I don’t see one about your definition of appropriate. So lets start there. You say you screwed up my class because I voilated a rule. What rule?

#6

You are way out of line here.

The honorarium auditors determine which classes are eligible for honorarium. When Walter and I tried to put together a list of rules to publish, a bunch of members pitched an absolute fit, so you can just stop right there.

I think you do a lot of interesting things but attacking Bill is not one of them.

5 Likes
#7

@LukeStrickland

I think its a good idea, i must have lost that tag a month or two ago when I got busy elsewhere and didn’t post. We need help to branch I think…

@Bill

Because there is no rule like you are suggesting, it seems you don’t like the fact that the use case I present as example of wheel operation is an actual development concept: for botfoot project, for pullski project, and two more I am not telling you about right now. And I should have freedom to recruit the best and brightest with similar interests from the station as instructor, especially for a volunteer role that has potential for monetary payout if successful. Or perhaps the DMS way is to prevent its members from having access to opportunity that comes from attending the right classes? I have been to plenty of classes where the contact details of the individual speaking was the best feature of the class.

This does not appear to be enforcement of any DMS rule. Correct me if I am wrong, but since we have abscense of any infraction here, its time to fix the erroneous deletion of an obviously applicable DMS/electronics/microcontrollers subject: lets learn to control ‘The wheel’.

If I wrote a less than great summary, its not the first. I usually rewrite them as I get closer to the date since my personal knowledge about controlling ‘the wheel’ is evolving rapidly since its my central interest at the moment. But the Labview on Pi through custom electronics interface has yet to be properly implemented by me, and certainly applicable to about a million different ‘the wheel’ projects.

So maybe instead of screwing up my schedule, if you have a concern that maybe I could have written a better summary about the topic, I would appreciate a simple message rather than a shakeup of schedule with no rule violation. If my tempo is too fast (probably is), I accept feedback (horribly just like all other EEs). But to fault me for non-violation, then still insist there is something wrong, well, its not the @bill that took his personal time and energy to help me figure out the the deepest recesses of japanese motor technology aka mazda.

#8

The DMS Board of Directors empowered the honorarium auditors to help determine which of the many requests for honorarium furthers the mission of The Space. I am acting in that capacity. Nothing more, nothing less.

I will readily admit that “the rules” are not written down clearly in black and white. I am proponent is the “don’t make us make a rule” approach. If you and others insist, we will make a rule and you may not like the result. It is DMS’ money; DMS has the right to determine how it is handed out.

7 Likes
#9

How about teaching a class instead of having a workshop based on the thing you are inventing.

This is clearly not what honorariums are for. Otherwise I’m totally going to have a workshop with the people making case mods for quakecon and we can all do whatever and suck the DMS money away from people actually teaching classes.

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#10

And I am going to have a class-cum-workshop on how to whitewash a fence. Location: St. Petersburg, Missouri.

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#11

Classes vs Projects/Events. Classes are structured and formatted to teach/convey a skill or knowledge. It is not ad hoc as you go.

You can have Project Classes, I’ll give example using a prior Machine Shop Example, here’s portion:

  1. Define what the project is. To build a working steam engine from a kit from raw castings and unfinished parts. (at this point still just a project or event)
  2. What students will learn, sequence, etc., this example will just cover part of this multi class build:
    …2a: Spot face pads for attachments using the Bridgeport mill (specific tool and skill and why spot facing is needed)
    … 2b: Fly wheel: setting in lathe or Bridgeport to make parallel surfaces on flywheel (Skills taught: How to use specific tools and their attachments and setups. Measuring parallelism).
    … 2c: Flywheel: How to -locate true center of hub, drilling out undersized hole, final hole size using reamer (skills taught: use of measuring tools, selecting proper drill size and reamer, difference in machine cast iron verses other types of materials)
    … 2d: Installation of bearings, use of arbor press, alignment, interference fit (skills taught: use of arbor, considerations in pressing a larger diameter piece into a smaller diameter hole, high precision measuring for roundness, diameter, etc. to within 0.0001")
    … 2e. Balancing Flywheel: Use of centers, material removal - where and how to remove material (Skills taught: Use of balancing tool, determining how much out of balance, determining where to remove material. Why removing material rather than adding material).

That’s enough of an example. The students will be building the project but there are specific skills and techniques being taught and used. There is an organized planned sequence. While at the end of the classes there will be a working model, students will now have been TAUGHT the skills to now make their own or another project that uses these skills.

As opposed to project build event: Let’s build a steam engine kit, get together, figure it out, and get it built.

Does this make sense? When I teach a machining class I have a list of items I’m going to teach and have the students do. At the end they will have the basic skill to machine something.

5 Likes
#12

Well, this got heated.

@semaphore1999 sorry that you calendar item was rejected for honorarium. I will be the first to admit that our honorarium process is not kind to instructors, as there are multiple fail states that all seem to end with the instructor being confused, pissed off and in many cases unpaid. That said, we have some obvious communication issues going on here.

I’ll try my best to explain what I can tell. Note, “the wheel” is some kind of code I have no clue what it stands for.

In Bill’s reading of your calendar event he felt it seemed that you were hosting a workshop to work on your personal project, rather than putting on a formal class teaching some form of subject matter. DMS can not pay you to work on your own personal project even if you are opening it up to the rest of the membership. This would violate laws against personal enurement with non-profits. This is the hardest part of running the honorarium program.

We can pay for a service of teaching. But, offering a come meet up and observe me working on my project, you might have the chance to chip in or learn from looking in, is a harder argument to make for it being a formal class. Then, you state that you are learning as as you go as well. So now the “Class” description seems more like Come watch me figure out my project and maybe chip in and help me if you want to use it as well. This seems like you are asking DMS to pay you, so you will schedule a time for others to observe you learning and they might have to help you learn as well.

I in no way mean to besmirch you James, I stated before I was also confused by the description in the thread. But, from the back and forth this is how I read the situation. Sometimes other opinions can help get to a middle ground, as it seems like this discussion hit a wall and other members started piling on.

Side Note: @Bill please understand that you are in a position of power being on the denial team. James and many other teachers have no real clue what the real issue is when they get denied. This leads to comments as shown by James which are defensive as he is obviously upset. You have the power in this scenario, rather than push the upset party, please try to defuse the scenario. Your first post I felt was good, though blunt. Your second post however was not.

This last line was effectively go suck an egg. Again you are the member asserting power here rather than James. Even when dealing with a member being intentionally confrontational, please try to not escalate the issue, especially when your in the seat of power.

3 Likes
#13

Please note that proposed classes, submitted via the calendar system, are just that: proposed. Until your class is approved, I wouldn’t plan your life around that event.

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#14

Sorry to resurrect this, but this posting creates the appearance of me being an idiot which I think most know better, but I’ll go ahead and make some things clear:

With something like ‘the wheel’, nothing gets done in 1 hour of time other than show others how to tap in and get control of the wheel. There are no tools in classroom, just wheel, RPi, computer, interface board. No soldering iron even.

I realize that many of you have been to a class of mine, but I have never gone forward without agenda. Here are some from previous classes that were easy to locate:

LabVIEW Class 1.pdf (391.6 KB)
LabVIEW Arduino.pdf (415.2 KB)

I always have a meaningful agenda for class, there should be no concern that a class of mine would be ad hoc. History does not support that concern, although one class never got to agenda due to connectivity issues. My class listing explains that its about controlling the wheel using Pi, an obviously solid technical subject matter.

I have not developed an agenda for upcoming class because its not upcoming on schedule, and i will likely know more about it and do a better job defining that agenda immediately prior to class (1 to 2 days prior).

I also would like to point out the conflict of interest with Bill reviewing my classes as he has been indicating that he has issue with teaching of LabVIEW for embedded targets or something. This began when I taught the LabVIEW Arduino class and got strange contacts from someone concerned about how my class may conflict with their arduino class. Bottom line, this does not at all seem like it was cancelled legitimately.

So here are the main four points about this subject from my point of view:

  1. Class has not been cancelled for violation of a rule about honorarium. It has just been cancelled, and its gotten ugly since, I don’t know why other than I guess some folks don’t want anyone to use LabVIEW for embedded targets? Too late, says the industry.
  2. There should be no reason to expect I have attempted to proceed without agenda. I don’t have that history.
  3. It seems that any concern could have been managed by sending a message. Cancelling my class without grounds leaves me in a state of wondering if any of my classes will work out. Given the history with the whole WTF auto thing, I’m running out of enthusiasm for DMS and desire to not be further chastised. Its just out of place.
  4. Stuff like this is not on me, but damages my reputation. I am not interested in continuing with such. I am one of the few degreed EEs running around at DMS, and I expect to be treated as such. Otherwise, I am forced to protect my rep, and I will do exactly that without reservation.

Tell you what, I’ll not schedule further classes (at DMS) unless we can fix this problem to my satisfaction.

#15

But no one knew this happened until you made a post on a public forum… You could have had this conversation in private by emailing the classroom or honorarium group directly.

“Stuff like this” is on you. Especially when you are the one who points the spotlight at it.

4 Likes
#16

I’m confused how you still seem to miss why the class was not approved. It was stated that the description of the class made it seem like a personal project rather than a class.

Once that was stated it seemed as though you either didn’t accept that reasoning or completely missed it.

The latter conversation on all sides devolved into conspiracy, taunting and soap boxing.

Good luck with the tactic of holding the DMS hostage of no more classes from YOU till the issue is resolved to your liking. I’ll tell you, unless your teaching a class that 40+ people are requesting on a bi weekly to monthly basis this tactic it’s unlikely to work due to the volunteer structure of DMS.

Instead, I would suggest resubmit your class with a description that sounds more like a class. Stay away from phasing that sounds like a personal project.

It is unlikely but possible that personal history is involved here. That said at DMS you can change your personal history by just changing your behavior or hanging out with those that agree with you. Conflict shines bright in the group and public conflict shines the brightest. If public conflict is your chosen method, then accept the consequence of being known for conflict. As that is what many will see well before they have met or seen you.

3 Likes
#17

Nick,

There is no rule that prevents a class from taking place or being paid honorarium for the reason I have been given. I expect that my classes would not be cancelled unless there is a violation of rule. Please direct me to one if you feel so confident.

There is no conspiracy. Your message has the taunting, not mine. I expect better. If what I am seeing in this thread is DMS excellence, then I want no part of it. May I inquire as to your relationship/interest in this situation? Are you a board member, class reviewer, or just someone who likes to write stuff like what I just read above? I am trying to understand your strong interest and input in the matter.

#18

@PearceDunlap

Thanks for chiming in?

I inquired about the topic openly because I did not know what happened. That is how it became public.

I attempted to talk to Bill on Sunday, just trying to enjoy conversation like we used to before this debacle began. And he brought the subject up, got all loud, and attempted to draw me into confrontation about the matter. I got out of there as quick as I could, but not before some folks around demonstrated their mailaise.

So yeah, I’m not off-base, nor did I make it public. And no, I don’t like for information about myself that is public to be taken to such a ridiculous ending, like the auto thing. I should have driven that one to a satisfactory end, but instead allowed folks to blame me just so it would end.

At this point, however, I have simply had enough. I am not going to accept any more blame for dumb things that others do in spite of me. If you have a problem with me, that is your problem. Deal with it, as I am a rule-abiding, dues paying, well educated and talented member of DMS. In fact, try and keep up. I have a lot of stuff I need to execute, and I’m not gonna let much stand in my way, especially bad attitude demonstrated by others.

#19

James, No offense but it seems you are the one being un-excellent, other people here have politely tried to tell you what the issue is but you ignore them.

Here is a quote from your class proposal

" For those interested, we have room for contributors. Anyone who feels such a project is up their alley, or is willing to learn can get involved. With a little bit of luck, we could wind up with some funding and/or a product that sells online. This is one of hopefully many products I would like to try out in the marketplace."

YOU are the one who used words like “Contributors” and “Project” making this not a class where a teacher imparts his wisdom on others but a Group Project.

The answer to the problem which eludes you is simple, and I am surprised that a man with an EE degree has not figured it out yet…Change the wording of your class proposal. There is no conspiracy keeping you form getting an honorarium.

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#20

I see the issue seems to stem from your reading comprehension.

I was not saying that you were taunting. Rather others in the thread. Now conspiracy, I do feel that does fit you. I, like you am also not a fan of our honorarium system. I’ve had ligament classes blocked because the members approving classes didn’t “like” me. But, this is a problem that is going away as we spread access to the approval system. I also don’t feel it happened in your case either, as Bill is a rocket dork rather than a politically involved member like I had issue with.

Personally, I like you. I’ve followed many of your projects often giving you praise while at the space. You seem to be blinded by the fact that you feel slighted to the point that you attack.

Resubmit your class with a description that sounds like a class rather than a personal project. It will then probably be approved for honorarium.

Or

Continue to stand on your high horse with a blindness to the actual problem and burn yourself out of DMS like so many in the past have and you have stated is your plan.

Personally, I’d rather have you around even if you think I’m out to get you.

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