Router Table and Special Materials use

Woodshop
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Continuing the discussion from Plastics on the CNC Router:

I’m replying to this in a linked topic to try and keep the plastics thread on topic.

@AlexRhodes, The way materials are handled for the router is not how they are handled for the laser. With the laser you are allowed to cut all materials that do not harm the laser cutter or humans operating the laser. So under the current rules if you had a special material that didn’t out gas high levels of toxins and didn’t harm the laser you would be allowed to use it. The Haas rules I am less informed on, but I believe they stand as The machine shop supports tooling for Aluminum mainly, so if you would like to machine other materials you may be required to purchase your own tooling. There is probably some section on not harming the machine or members around the machine as well.

Neither of these machines require that you train other in a class on your material to be allowed to use your material on the machine.

The woodshop should not be required to support the tooling for cutting all materials, but the members should have ability to purchase their own tooling and use the machine to cut their chosen specific materials without the requirement of teaching to other members in a class. I would suggest member should have to know key features and cutting techniques for their material and be able to explain them before they are given permission to test and cut with the material. When at the point of testing maybe we should require a trainer be present in order to lessen the chances of novice mistakes such as not knowing how to slow spindle travel or speed which I feel is key when testing new material. Once the member can show that they are routing a material with little to no difficulty, then they should be allowed to route the material without observation.

Alex and other members would you agree or modify these suggestions?

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I want to make my stance very clear since Nick you have convoluted the issue.

“There will be NO unapproved material used on any of DMS equipment.”

I don’t care about your Intellectual Property and if you want to use Dallas Makerspace equipment without willing to say what it is you should go elsewhere or purchase your own.

Alex and myself as well as the other teachers are already having an uphill battle trying to keep everybody safe, if you are so concerned about your IP go elsewhere.

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Nick, why do you continue to muckrake people? It’s extremely un-excellent. You seem to do this every time you don’t get your way

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@Robert_Davidson Thanks for commenting on the thread, also thanks for pulling such a accurate quote I made in another thread it deserves a spot in this thread as well to keep the idea clear.

I agree,

I’m trying to find a way to make allowances to have a material approved for use by a member without the requirement to have the material part of a class. This is how I would like to allow for development of intellectual property in handling that material. I want to allow us to be excellent to members that are doing something special while also being excellent to the members that want a curriculum on more common materials. I see that Alex and Robert are touchy on this and I agree in my first handling of the idea I was incorrect in my actions. Thus leading to the reason for the touchiness.

Please consider the idea I am proposing as it has evolved and changed from my original idea. I want to work within our systems to solve this instead burning down the walls. Please allow me that abillity.

@bscharff, your comment is off topic and I would ask you to remove it as I’m trying to discuss using special materials on the router in this thread.

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Way i see it, we pay a minimal fee to use something that isn’t ours. I’ve heard other spaces charge cut times on there CNC’s. Easily the rule could be ok cut your plastic, at 10 bucks per min to cover any damage. This space doesnt, so I think we are getting into a I want what i want when i want it mode. Similar to iron man that came in and tore up bits and left metal shards all over the place and then left.

The idea isnt that we shouldnt do it, but apparently the board members are not comfortable that the proper protocols have been exercised to do so.

Might just need to listen to the concerns and address those first with open ears before putting personal wants in the forefront. Plastics and other non-wood materials use on the CNC should be a considered as an added option not an entitlement, especially since we didn’t shell out the 30k for it.

If safety protocols and due diligence haven’t been approved by those with authority then apprarently it wasn’t presented correctly. There is no reason why we can’t talk about it civil w/o trashing other members. The more you pick fights, the further back your gonna push what it is you want done.

So maybe just let it happen naturally man, do the bookwork first, get members interested and then get the necessary approvals for testing. This machine gets F’d up you will see alot of members walk, plastics will be banned and it’s a lose lose. The space will never be on our timeline, too many things can happen, and too many machines have been busted up by personal want projects.

Put the space first before an idea so everyone can continue to enjoy what we have.

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This is exactly what I’m trying to figure out. What steps do I need to take in order to fulfill due diligence in the case where you are wanting to use a material that you wouldn’t like to teach the membership as a whole.

I don’t want to damage the tool, myself, or others. Safety and access to the tool are at the core of my suggestion. This is where I’m in agreement.

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I would say bring in your research and present that to the board, knowledge is key.

Take the machine totally out of the equation, nobody will raise a brow and will listen to what you have to say. When you start elluding to i’m gonna bring my own stuff in here and i should be able to use it, implies, your wanting to use the machine as a guinea pig, and I dont think we have that right to do so.

Get people talking about, the more civil discussions the board members see, the more they will loosen the reigns as they see fit. I mean you can’t go bashing the folks that have voluteered there time and effort free of charge w/o them we would have POS shack with low level tools.

What you see today and what you use on a daily basis is there due to logical conversations and decision making. What they are asking isn’t the end of the world,

@AlexRhodes has mentioned to me his interest in cutting other materials. However no one has stepped up and done the due diligence necessary, if a class is required and you know your stuff, teach a class on it pass on that knowledge to others. Give back before you take and you will get more support on your goal.

Promise you, if you started a thread on CLASS FOR CUTTING PLASTICS on CNC, who is gonna fight you on that.

Once its clear that you know what your doing, and its justified. I highly doubt with supervision, that you couldnt test your theory’s on the CNC in small increments. Once confirmed then there is possibilities of continued use.

Your trying to skip all the preliminaries, get a few interests, and go straight to cutting. Respect other folks concerns instead of pushing your wants out there. I mean i still wanna test a few things on the CNC, but @Kentamanos has expressed concens on what i want to do, so i’m gonna discuss it, find a time he’s available and then go through the process to make sure my thoughts are valid.

Space is full of super smart people man, and for a reason, so my suggestion is to get your business plan together, present it properly by teaching others, get it approved the correct way. Otherwise your spinning your wheels.

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You can have the IP on your design, you don’t have to share your design with anyone. The process for cutting new materials needs to be vetted though. Our process is to email CNCsupervisors and have them take a look at the material and then we can add it to the library. Having people experiment with no oversight is not good practice.

All in all the overall goal of the Makerspace as I see it is to educate and share knowledge. From the front page of our website, “We use these resources to collaborate on individual and community projects in order to promote science, technology and art; while working and experimenting on innovative ideas to encourage learning within our community.”

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And, as Alex pointed out in the other thread, there is a working group addressing these issues for the CNC router right now. So I think you could rightly say the issue is recognized, being appropriately addressed, and its time to wait for the outcome.

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They are trying to figure out a process to be able to use other materials on the CNC Router. Just saying ‘Nope, we can’t do plastics’ is not a valid answer. A more appropriate answer would be ‘We cannot use these materials until we determine the best process for them.’

I get the concerns for damage to the machine, contamination of the area etc. We did buy a machine capable of wood, plastic and aluminum. If we were going to eliminate 2 of the three possibilities maybe we should have scaled back our purchase. More damage has been done while doing wood than any other material.

Also shit happens. If a drive wheel comes loose that not really someone’s fault but if they drive the bit into the machine because they did not reset the Z, different problem!

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