Again, not short notice. Since you didn’t check the calendar, nor read the many notices on the class room doors which show the schedules, you only had an hours notice.
I will also point out that you asked if you could move an oscilloscope from another bench to the one you were using and both Art and I asked you not to because of the need to get things ready for the class. You then proceeded to ignore us and do it anyway.
Oh, and those spools of wire weren’t small ones, easily overlooked. They both were about a foot high and eight inches in diameter. Frankly, don’t understand how you could have ‘overlooked’ them if you had really tried cleaning up after yourself.
Please calm down. I do not know you and you do not know me. I genuinely thought that you said that it was ok as long as it was put back before the class, which I did. I am not trying to break any rules or cause a disturbance. I am absent-minded. I can spend an hour looking for something that is right in front of me. How about instead of belittling my efforts, you cherish the fact that you do not have the same problems I do?
As for the calendar, re-read my long post. I am new to DMS. It had not occurred to me (and others, I imagine) to check the calendar specifically for events that would be using the space and tools that I would be using. This is not obvious to any new member. The hour notice I had was a short notice.
If I have a project that is going to take significant time in an area, I check the calendar, AND the area Cameras before I drive down.
Like, if I need the lift for something in automotive, I can see on the area cameras that there are 3 cars stacked up in automotive, might have to wait for that for another day. Ditto for Multi-cam and 3d Fab
Side effect-- sometimes I notice something cool on the calendar that I can work into my time while I’m there too.
I don’t really want to engage in the rest of the discussion. I’m not currently a user of the electronics lab, and I don’t understand what constraints exist in that space really.
Actually I do have the exact same issue, I end up ordering the same parts multiple time because I put them down on my bench at home and then can’t find them. But with hundreds of members if they all fail to put even one thing back where they got it, you end with nothing where it belongs and people having to spend much of their time just trying to find the tools they need. That just isn’t acceptable, so please develop some technique, notes, photos, etc, to ensure you put everything you use back where you found it. Forgetting, just really isn’t an acceptable excuse. Art wasn’t joking when he mentioned how much of a PIA it is to have to spend a great deal of your time at the space cleaning up after members ‘who just forgot’.
From watching you work Saturday, you seem to have valuable skills you can share with others, and I encourage you to do so. Just please work on fixing your ‘absentmindedness’ so as not to create work for others.
I also suggest bookmarking the link above, so you can see if your anticipated time frame is available now that you are aware of the issue. It will likely be a rare week, where the electronics room is booked for more then 10 hours a week for classes. If it does, this is a good problem for DMS to have.
@grantf to be honest, Walter is an asshole. But, being an asshole doesn’t make him wrong here. You claim that you were not given notice, when in fact you and the rest of DMS was given public notice in a central location that is able to be checked both at and away from DMS, the events calendar. Also, Walter explained and hour before hand that you were in an area that was reserved in an hour, giving you plenty of time to move or clean up your project.
Also, leaving a mess because you are absent minded and forgot to clean it up doesn’t forgive the mess left behind. It is still your mess and you put it onto someone else to clean up after you, absent minded or not.
I don’t see how you can complain about others not being courteous, while you are leaving behind messes, because you are absent minded, for other to clean up and suggesting that we should cancel or alter scheduled classes because you didn’t plan your time well. How many people would you suggest should be inconvenienced for you?
I agree with you but I am not the big offender here. What I would suggest, since it seems that you two are so uptight about how the equipment is organized, is to take pictures of what the benches should look like, and post them above the benches. It is not clear to me which pieces of equipment “belong” to which bench, and what is means for a bench to be clean, since I often walk in to a not-clean bench. This way everyone will know how to keep their bench orderly. Telling me how to be organized is 1/1500 as effective as telling everyone with some signs. Trust me, people not cleaning up after themselves is something that bothers me too and I would be happy to help and give suggestions since it is something that I have to constantly deal with. I managed my dorm’s electrical engineering lab for a year in undergrad so I know the struggle.
You seem to have missed some of the conversation. My “mess” was leaving two spools of wire on the bench which takes 20 seconds to put back. On average, I clean up more for others than I leave behind. And again, I am new and was not aware that the entire electrical engineering lab could be reserved, thus I had no inclination to check online to see if it was reserved. And even if I did check online to see if there was a class going on, there is nothing in the description that says that I could not do work while the class is going on.
The key to what I said, was put things back where you get it from. That may not be the ‘right’ place but if everyone were to do so it would be. Signs aren’t needed, just clean up after yourself and put everything back from where you got it. No one will ever complain if you just do that simple thing.
I suggest that before you suggest others put in even more effort, you work on your ‘absent mindedness’ using one of the suggestions I made above.
BTW, you ‘often’ walk into a ‘not clean’ bench because someone else was absent minded. It is a problem we need to correct.
Invariably, not everyone will put everything back where they found it; everyone will make a small mistake from time to time when putting something back. It is a futile effort to make the general population less absent minded. Since you know how the benches are supposed to be organized, make a list of what needs to be done when cleaning up and put that list in clear view for people to refer to when they’re cleaning up. This way, there is a central reference for what it means for a bench to be clean. I guarantee this will work better than singling out individuals.
Wait a second, didn’t you say you were going to take pictures of the mouser workbenches? Why not just print those out and put them on the wall? This is what was done at my university (MIT) when reserving conference rooms to make sure people put them back the right way.
Sorry, but I disagree completely. It is most certainly not unreasonable to expect people to put EVERYTHING they use back where it belongs. If your premise was correct, we ought to abandon our incredibly cheap rates, and adopt the policies of commercial makerspaces like Techshop, where you can be fined or kicked out for failing to clean up after yourself, and on top of that pay 3-5 times our rates for the priveledge. What is futile is attempting to justify your failing to completely clean up because ‘everyone’ does it. That excuse stopped working when you were 2-3 years old.
Again, suggesting people who are already volunteering a great deal of their time to do more work, because you think it is a good idea is not going to be something most of us accept. But let me lay out just a few of the reasons, your idea just will not work.
It isn’t just the tools on the benches, but the thousands of tools in the Electronics room (and elsewhere in DMS). We would need a huge reference volume to cover all of those areas with photos with enough detail for you to see them.
Where everything belongs is a living activity, since our tools continue to grow, on an almost daily basis. So even if such a list were to be created, it would take an enormous effort to maintain them.
Many of the items (parts) are donations, that do not get replenished.
People who were raised properly were taught as children to put there crap back where their parents told them too. Expecting adults to put things back when they are done isn’t an unreasonable expectation.
Yes, I am. I am creating the photos for several reasons.
To post to our blog, as a thank you to Mouser for donating nearly $10,000 in tools to DMS, yet again
To send Mouser at their request.
As to hanging on wall, please read above. This isn’t just about the ‘benches’ but every tool in DMS. In no place in DMS is it alright to leave crap where you finished with it. You are expected to put everything you use back where you got it from.
That MIT has chosen to give in and stop expecting students and faculty to behave like adults is not really a good argument.
Grant, I am tired of this little tet a tet with you. I an others have explained our rules to you. You can comply with them and accept our culture or you can accept that your membership with DMS will be a rough one.
I think he meant that the pictures were a reference of where the “default” was. This seems like a good idea when the last people to use a room may not be the ones who made the initial change.
Again, the key is that we aren’t talking a few items, but rather hundreds or thousands. So pictures aren’t going to help. I also was clear that we don’t expect people to return things to some ideal, ‘official’ location. You put things back where YOU found them. It isn’t hard, it just requires people to care enough to do it, rather then expect their mothers to clean up after them.
I think we’re on different pages here. I’m trying to give suggestions for you to save time by creating a system that makes it easier for people to clean up after themselves and others. In no way am I trying to justify my actions. In addition, we’re talking about two different problems: cleaning up after oneself and putting tools back in the same place. My suggestion was to have reference pictures of a clean workbench to solve the former problem. Nobody knows what’s supposed to be on the workbench. I see solder and helping hands on some workbenches but not others. How am I supposed to know where it belongs?
Since you are not interested in my suggestions to make DMS a better place, I will stop offering them to you now. Good luck with upkeeping the electronics lab.
NOBODY has said, “put it back where it belongs”, we said put it back WHERE YOU FOUND IT, If you honestly think your incapable of doing that, then please resign your membership right now. Any adult should be capable of that without requiring training, excuses, hand holding, etc…
As an example you removed the small white power supply from the one bench, and returned it when you were reminded. Neither Art nor I said anything to you about the small black supply on that bench which should have been on the bench you chose to use. We simply put it back ourselves. If everyone did the SIMPLE thing above, then things would automatically be where they are supposed to be.
As to how you might know where things are supposed to be, the answer is also likely one you will not like. It starts with being a member, not a customer. Participating in the committee that is responsible for the infrastructure. Being there often enough to learn where things belong. Getting grumpy after the thousandth time you have had to throw out someone’s food waste, put things back where they belong, or find some item has been broken and unreported or stolen.
Oscope is a 5 minute briefing, if they don’t have the snap/training to get that (or dig it up in a YouTube Tutorial) they really have no business building something they plan to later plug into the wall.
Thanks for the invite, GLWATCDR, I’ll be at the next Committee Meeting. I truly want to give back, and be a positive force.
In the mean time, work will continue directed toward a very useful LifeHack at DallasEduSpace. If results are positive; I plan to teach the class, with approval of course.
