Does anyone know of any DMS members or friends of DMS that is a current Registered Professional Engineer? That would help and do some Pro-Bono work on the ventilation in the Metalshop.
Pretty much what needs to happen is prepare a design for the city.
Robert,
Does anyone know of any DMS members or friends of DMS that is a current Registered Professional Engineer? That would help and do some Pro-Bono work on the ventilation in the Metalshop. Pretty much what needs to happen is prepare a design for the city.
I am a member of the TSPE (Texas Society for Professional Engineers, but not yet a full PE) and can put some feelers out, but I do have some questions:
Instead of full pro-bono, can the DMS offer something like free membership for a period of time, credit towards using the cutting laser, etc. ? Or would that be a conflict of interest / against some other rule with non-profits and so forth?
The reason I bring this up is because for a PE to do this kind of work for free is asking a serious favor as freelance project rates are invariably 3 digits per hour and engineers at that level are in high demand. If there is a member willing to do it for pro-bono, then God bless them, but I think the response will be faster if there are some negotiable perks available.
Also, can you outline a slightly more detailed Scope of Work? (because that is the first thing I will have to lead with)
And does the city require the PE to be in a specific specialty category such as a Civil Engineer or can any PE submit a design for the city? This last question I can look into if you (or another member) doesn’t know off the top of your head.
JAG “Headhunter of Ventilation Design Deities” MAN
And one of the reasons for such costs, is that for a PE to sign and seal a plan set involves opening themselves up to a great deal of liability. Unless they personally carry professional liability insurance (not common unless they run their own business) most (at least the smart ones) will not do free lance work.
Here is what we currently have. (THANK CHUCK)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wnlno4d75so8rz6/Estimate%201.xls?dl=0
I believe @MathewBusby is an engineer, though I don’t know if he is a Texas PE. At the very least he might be able to add something of value
Robert,
Understood and noted for future reference.
I will relay rates if I get takers.
Okay, that will make it less expensive in theory, but don’t be surprised if the price goes up because they need more detail and/or modifications.
What is the contact info for the point person with the City of Carrollton? PM me if you have it or put me in touch with someone who does. They need to be spoken to first as to requirements for the PE seal.
JAG “Looking For An Engineer / Cleric: Please Inquire Within” MAN
Yes, this is work I could do in theory. After reviewing the Practice Act, I don’t think this work can be done without retaining a registered firm. That prevents me from doing it, no way my firm would engage in this.
My $0.02 - no way in hell can you get the ventilation you need out of that 6" roof penetration.
Edit: things I believe need to be reviewed by a competent professional: the air transfer grilles between the Woodshop and Metal Shop, as this can very easily introduce flammable particulates to an area where hot work occurs (Class III hazardous environment, in my estimation); required ventilation volume for the plasma cutter; required ventilation volume for the maximum number of welders that can be operated at one time; required ventilation volume for anything else that requires ventilation.
Any Engineer in Texas can perform engineering in a sector in which they deem themselves competent, which of course subjects them to Board action should they be proven incompetent. Mechanicals are the guys that normally do this work.
And considerable financial liability…
Mathew,
Yes, this is work I could do in theory. After reviewing the Practice Act, I don’t think this work can be done without retaining a registered firm. That prevents me from doing it, no way my firm would engage in this
So it sounds like an HVAC engineering firm needs to be consulted and getting that done pro bono is pure fiction.
My $0.02 - no way in hell can you get the ventilation you need out of that 6" roof penetration.
What is the minimum size you think - 1 foot?
easily introduce flammable particulates to an area where hot work occurs (Class III hazardous >environment, in my estimation)
Are you talking then about aerosolized metal particles that are concentrated in a much smaller area such as in the ducting? And what about handling accumulation over time? Should there be a trap that catches that?
JAG “Cheap Reality Checks for Two Cents” MAN
There is a reason I did not provide an increased size that could be construed as a recommendation or advice.
There are tons of firms that do stuff like this, most consulting engineering firms provide a wide range of services not just one. There are certainly individuals that are registered with the State as firms and could perform this work as well. You might even find someone to do it for free, but they still have to meet certain requirements.
I’m talking about the grilles shown in the plan linked above that seem to allow air to freely move between the woodshop and metal shop. Even with the dust control system in the woodshop, a lot of flammable dust is produced that could pass into the metal shop. From Wikipedia: Hot work is any process that can be a source of ignition when flammable material is present or can be a fire hazard regardless of the presence of flammable material in the workplace. Generally, particulates are prevented from reaching the duct work by filters.
I believe this is a task that should be pursued by the board, not a member-at-large.
It was brought to my attention that my previous comment was harsh. I apologize if any offense was taken. My point is that the Board is obviously attempting to find someone competent to perform aforementioned services and that unless you have a direct contact to pass along to the Board, solicitation of professional services should be left to the Board. If someone around here has experience in this area, I would imagine the Board welcomes their opinion.
I think we are over our head on what is required as luckily we have had contractors come out and take care of this.
So if someone knows of a company that can handle this job would love to hear about it.
Mathew,
There is a reason I did not provide an increased size that could be construed as a recommendation or advice.
Good point.
There are tons of firms that do stuff like this, most consulting engineering firms provide a wide range of services not just one.
I am well aware of that as sometimes these firms contact me for consulting work, but I figured one that specialized in this would be most efficient.
There are certainly individuals that are registered with the State as firms and could perform this work as well. You might even find someone to do it for free, but they still have to meet certain requirements.
I think Walter’s comments about this and my gut intuition still says that is unlikely.
I’m talking about the grilles shown in the plan linked above that seem to allow air to freely move between the woodshop and metal shop. Even with the dust control system in the woodshop, a lot of flammable dust is produced that could pass into the metal shop. From Wikipedia: Hot work is any process that can be a source of ignition when flammable material is present or can be a fire hazard regardless of the presence of flammable material in the workplace. Generally, particulates are prevented from reaching the duct work by filters.
That is very enlightening information - I appreciate your sharing.
It was brought to my attention that my previous comment was harsh. I apologize if any offense was taken.
Mathew, thank you VERY much for the apology and repairing your wording a bit. It says a lot of good things about your character. Also, I liked your post before you edited it as I suspected that you did not intend it to come across the way you did.
But, honestly I did find that previous remark phrased in a very unprofessional manner as my line of inquiry did NOT warrant such a response.
I have over 30 years of technical experience in 7 different fields including nanotechnology, am working on my 4th Science / Engineering degree, and I have been running my own Electromagnetic / Biomedical consulting firm for over 13 years and advise to a large variety of industries from Aerospace / Military to legal firms and heavy industrial.
I am definitively a very capable individual in many areas as I know you are, so I feel it is best to have mutual respect for each other and to get to know one another better.
As for being out of my realm, that was understood from the beginning or else I would have offered and it is also why I was asking questions. It is how I LEARN. And I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
My point is that the Board is obviously attempting to find someone competent to perform aforementioned services and that unless you have a direct contact to pass along to the Board, solicitation of professional services should be left to the Board.
I am very well connected and have a talent for finding the right entity for the job if it is something outside of my scope - that was the point of my questions. If I seem unqualified to do even that, then I will gladly bow out as I have a business to run (I have had three calls for consulting just in the process of typing this response) and many other things to attend to.
If someone around here has experience in this area, I would imagine the Board welcomes their opinion.
And if someone else wants to step up and post on here, they are certainly welcome to do so.
At any rate, we are good, Mathew. Furthermore I feel these challenges set a good example for the rest of the membership as to having honest communication without degrading into ego saturated conflict.
JAG “Standing Down” MAN
I agree with my learned colleague Mr. Busby. As to the specific requirements, an example (OSHA) follows:
Ventilation for general welding and cutting. Mechanical ventilation must be provided when welding or cutting is done on metals and other compounds not covered by this regulation under the following restrictions:
In a space of less than 10,000 cubic ft (284 cubic m) per welder
In a room having a ceiling height of less than 16 ft (5 m)
In confined spaces or where the welding space contains partitions, balconies, or other structural barriers to the extent that they significantly obstruct cross ventilation
Such ventilation must be at the minimum rate of 2,000 cubic ft (57 cubic meters ) per minute per welder, except where local exhaust hoods, booths, or airline respirators are provided. Natural ventilation is considered sufficient for welding or cutting operations where the space restrictions are not present.
Ventilation with hoods or booths. Either a hood or a fixed enclosure (i.e., booth) with airflow will satisfy the requirement for mechanical local exhaust ventilation. Freely movable hoods intended to be placed by the welder as close as possible to the work being welded and provided with a rate of air-flow sufficient to maintain a velocity in the direction of the hood of 100 linear ft (30 m) per minute in the zone of welding when the hood is at its most remote distance from the point of welding, will satisfy the requirement for a hood, if this ventilation method is chosen.
The rates of ventilation required to accomplish this control velocity using a 3-in. (7.6 cm) wide flanged suction opening are shown as a chart in the regulation at 29 CFR 1910.252(c)(3)(i).
A fixed enclosure (booth) with a top and not less than two sides which surround the welding or cutting operations and with a rate of airflow sufficient to maintain a velocity away from the welder of not less than 100 linear ft (30 m) per minute is an acceptable alternative to a hood.
Without putting words in the mouth of any future engineer, I wonder if the task could be best accomplished with a movable plated hood. I note that meeting the whole room requirement (2,000 cubic feet per minute), would probably seriously effect the HVAC in the rest of the building, since the intake vent effectively becomes the door to the metal shop. Maybe something like an 8’x8’x8’ hood on a cage and casters with flexible ducting would be more efficient and far cheaper.
Robert,
Here is a referral that should be able to perform the work described:
BERGER ENGINEERING COMPANY
10900 Shady Trail Dallas, Texas 75220
Main Office: 214.358.4451
http://www.berger-engr.com/
JAG “Deliverables from Middle Earth” MAN
Brian,
Again, I am impressed with your technical prowess.
However, as for adversely affecting the A/C, will this system really have to be on continuously or just turned on as needed?
Also, I notice that 2000 CFM exceeds the blower rating on the plans which show 600 CFM.
Maybe something like an 8’x8’x8’ hood on a cage and casters with flexible ducting would be more efficient and far cheaper.
That sounds like a ready made commercial product that you could almost plug in and play.
JAG “But Honey Badger Don’t Care” MAN
The Fire Marshal recommended hiring a Fire Protection Engineer who would be able to handle all of the above issues and prevent from having to spend money on multiple people. Have you followed his recommendation yet of drawing up a sketch of what we want to do(not an engineered diagram just a rough drawing by a member) and calling him and the building inspector out to just talk at the same time? He said this would save us a lot of money and it was what I was working on before y’all started taking over?
It might be available, but also sounds like something easily built as well.
The diagram is what I linked up above.
The Marshal said we need to submit a plan to the building inspector. (as of this week) hence what we are working on.