Poll - Space Rental

[Robert_Davidson]

Here is the exact layout

[ESmith]

I’m not against it, there seems to bit of a sticker shock at first glance.
If it does come out to be $3/sq.ft. then that’s what it needs to be.

~30% wastage for aisles isn’t bad for a back-of-the-napkin guess with regard to cages, particularly if they’re hugging walls and using walkways common to the space. I expect it would be a bit less for rackspace if they’re stacked 4x high. Lockers at 2x high might be in between.

The margin that DMS extracts is something that can be debated, but it should be set to guarantee reasonably quick ROI on any buildout and good revenue once the project is paid down.

[Ferman]

If it does come out to be $3/sq.ft. then that’s what it needs to be.

[BNK]

71 dollars since we wont’ achieve good efficiency and we have ultilities, walkways, etc to pay in addition to that cost let’s say that DMS real cost is 1 Dollar a square foot per month to keep the math simple.

So DMS actual cost is 100 for every 100 Square feet.

You accounted for walkways based on your normal figure unless walkways are being referred to something different.

As such, passing the full cost of the space dedicated to a member’s storage plus margin is reasonable since the goal of this is to up DMS revenue.

What you are missing is you have to have 40 members willing to pay $300 per month for this exclusive space if we are basing this on 4,000 sq ft. According to the current poll, only two members are even considering it. Your “Plus Margin” is too high. So at $600 per month you dont even break even with your costs. Who pays for the space that is vacant? (The members) who can not use that space until we can find someone willing to pay $300/month? (The members of course)

This is a simple equation of supply and demand. You may have space for rent, but you have to be priced where people will actually WANT to rent. No renters = negative revenue. That’s how businesses go bankrupt. Once the demand increases, the rent can increase as well.

[ESmith]

What you are missing is you have to have 40 members willing to pay $300 per month for this exclusive space if we are basing this on 4,000 sq ft. According to the current poll, only two members are even considering it. Your “Plus Margin” is too high. So at $600 per month you dont even break even with your costs. Who pays for the space that is vacant? (The members) who can not use that space until we can find someone willing to pay $300/month? (The members of course)

This is a simple equation of supply and demand. You may have space for rent, but you have to be priced where people will actually WANT to rent. No renters = negative revenue. That’s how businesses go bankrupt. Once the demand increases, the rent can increase as well.

True, the two cage and six pallet rack hand-raisers aren’t looking the most promising, but not all members are on Talk, those that are aren’t necessarily a representative sample, and this survey has lived for a mere four hours.

[John_Marlow]

Some ballpark numbers are the cost of 100 Square feet is approx 71 dollars since we wont’ achieve good efficiency

His starting number was also wrong. $71 is incorrect. It’s actually $87.50.

But the point isn’t really to justify the number. It’s to find out whether people would be interested at that number. I think I hear you saying you wouldn’t be interested. And that’s fine. It’s important for us to know how people feel about it so we can see if there is an opportunity or not.

[BNK]

but not all members are on Talk, those that are aren’t necessarily a representative sample, and this survey has lived for a mere four hours

You should add not all members are on discord, and not all members go to meetings, not all members vote, and not all members regularly go to the space. How shall we ever find a representative sample? I thought the poll was helpful myself. At least we are talking about it.

[Hardsuit]

I’m one of the few thumbs up for a 10 x 10 spot, and it was mainly to support the idea (although at the price mentioned it’s a grit your teeth kind of thing). If it was at a reasonable price point (IMO $200) I would be happy to rent 4-5 spots if it was allowed.

[ESmith]

You should add not all members are on discord, and not all members go to meetings, not all members vote, and not all members regularly go to the space. How shall we ever find a representative sample? I thought the poll was helpful myself. At least we are talking about it.

We don’t know how many members we’ll have next month or next year, nor what changing economic circumstances will do to our members’ disposable income and/or revenue-making prospects.

My main point is that after less than a day it’s early to draw conclusions about overall demand.

[motopilot]

(Rant on)

People, this is just a poll to see if there are people interested in paying extra for the convenience of having a storage area of their own AT THE SPACE. Not whether it is right, wrong or otherwise.

The PRICE of something is also determined by the VALUE it provides to people who need the good or service being provided. Whether we charge $5 or $500, it doesn’t necessarily have to be “just a little over cost.” Things are priced at what the market will bear or the entity selling it is just leaving money on the table.

Finally - if I hear “We’re a non-profit so we shouldn’t be making any profit” one more time I’m going to lose it. A non-profit means there’s no person or persons “making money” from the operations of the organization. We can take $2 t-shirts and sell them for $100 ($98 profit) all day long if people are willing to pay for them and as long as that money is used for the organization’s purposes. We can also charge members for usage of tools and equipment over and above the cost to run it if we feel like it too. That has nothing to do with being a non-profit.

(rant off and flamesuit on)

[Photomancer]

Of course you have to go pick your stuff up and you have to have your stuff back there before 9PM. If you have to load it up both ways sounds about the same as bringing from home.

The price reflects the value a person places on the value of convenience to the work areas.

[Cairenn_Day]

I dont need that much space, and I can t afford that much Mow offer me a 10x5 space in
even a wire cage that I can lock and that has enough power for a light and maybe one toll or a fan, since I understand this
area is not fully climate controlled for around $100=$125 a month I m going to see how I can afford it

We also need smaller storage areas for things like a box or two of clay

[jswilson64]

I totally totally understand. I can see the value if someone is more of a commercial maker, or has an engine they’re working on. heck, you could almost store a “project car” in a 10x10 depending on how disassembled it was…

But, for the hobbyist maker: $300 per month of value would outfit a pretty decent home “makerspace” if it were a loan payment.

5 years, 3.5% APR, $300 per month gets you a loan of about $16,000. That’s a Table saw, jointer, planer, laser cutter and a (cheap) shed to house them.

[Julie-Harris]

Exactly - at that price the hobby/household project maker is probably going to suffer through hauling their stuff to and from DMS for the one or two weekends a month they are at DMS. The hobby/project maker is probably not going to use the tools enough to frustrate other makers. I thought DMS wanted to discourage businesses from setting up at DMS and using tools heavily but it seems like storage costs will only make sense for people with a business. I don’t really care either way - if DMS can find people who will pay that much and fund the expansion then I think that’s awesome.

[TBJK]

I tell you what. Initially I had my reservation about renting a spot. However the more I thought about it, the more it would make sense to me.
If you put it in the context, now I can build a bike & have a place to store it while building. That money put into that spot would give me reasons to keep working on it. If I had a spot at home to build it would likely get procrastinated. When you assign monetary value to get something done, it tends to get done quicker.

[ESmith]

When you assign monetary value to get something done, it tends to get done quicker.

This has been one of the points I’ve been trying to make about project storage for years - it’s simply too cheap for the user, thus the tendency is to use it for months on end. The cost of having to show up at a storage meeting - or have someone proxy on your behalf - doesn’t seem to encourage efficiency. The cost doesn’t have to be monetary - just something that strongly encourages “as needed” use for in-process materials as opposed to the accumulation and intermediate-term storage I saw so much of.

[meanbaby]

Does DMS pay CAM , Tax, and insurance on the space? Just thinking if those cost were broke down within in the space charge it would make so much more sense than just saying 300.00 rent

Rent is-
Cam is-
Ins is-
Re tax is-
Total for space =

Ins

[Photomancer]

Oh, you omitted the minor expense of buying a house to put your shed up in. and being harassed by the busybody HOA self-appointed street monitor!

[John_Marlow]

Does DMS pay CAM , Tax, and insurance on the space? Just thinking if those cost were broke down within in the space charge it would make so much more sense than just saying 300.00 rent

Yes, we do, but they are lumped together into one Operating Expenses amount. The Common Area Maintenance, Property Tax, and property insurance are about 24% of the total.