Many of the tools/consumables at DMS cost a bit and sometimes go unpaid due to a myriad of excuses. We’ve been brainstorming ways to catch the costs from going unpaid in the CA room for a bit. Is this system something anyone has experience with? While I would love to wait for the development of a tablet process this might be a quick solution.
I came across it while reading this:
We (CA) don’t get anything close to $50 a month in payments for consumables so it wouldn’t be a good thing for us - but we could buy a tablet and share the monthly expense with other committees if anyone is interested. Possibly this is something for DMS as a whole to invest in for every room. I don’t know - opinions? thoughts?
In a nutshell, I don’t think it will work at the DMS and will not be effective
Those that are honest - they pay pay for their consumables(insert the old way the gallery snacks were paid for by those who bought and PAID for thier items with out a POS system)
Those who (insert any excuse here) don’t think they should pay for consumables or ANY thing else at the DMS won’t. Some “think” that the monthly membership fee “entitles” them to this.
Thieves have no integrity, so a new gadget like a POS system won’t affect them.
Just my two cents worth.
P.S. Even if the new board hires a staff member (I don’t support the expense of this) - a single “employee” cannot be expected to patrol all areas(laser, 3D, CA, etc) that require member’s to pay for time and consumables.
I will say that Tom’s statement is correct in the way he has stated it. Those that choose to steal will not pay for items because their is a POS Kiosk.
BUT
If their is an easy way to make payment for use of items and we punish those that steal, we can lower the numbers of people choosing to steal.
I’m suggesting a some what similar idea, but with the use of the Parks Pantry kiosk rather than a secondary kiosk on this thread.
But, without having a standard system we don’t have a standard procedure for any payment. Without standard procedure that level of small abuse can continue. With developed systems for expected behavior the behavior of …oh I don’t have $2 on me right now will change.
I agree the members with that mindset are set in the ways that $50 buys x,y, and z everywhere at DMS are going to be the people who aren’t going to change. They aren’t contributing to the culture of this place at all and are draining it without much care. I would hope a system like this will allow that behavior to be more recognizable.
I am reminded of a system that used to exist in the distant past when I was in school. There was a school ‘store’ that was open a few hours each week (manned by volunteer parents) and they would sell you the products available. All products were behind the counter and you paid and were handed what you paid for. I think it would be a more effective use of volunteer time to use a system like this for any consumables we choose to sell, though I think perhaps we should just get out of the practice of selling consumables altogether.
I’d like to agree with you in thinking / hoping (having faith in my fellow humans) that making payment easier then it already is would make the non payers - pay up.
I preferred the old Galley and I applaud Alan Wan for having maintaining it. Payment could NOT have been easier - but scofflaws (thieves) will never pay if given the opportunity of not getting caught - or worse in the case of DMS…if they are caught/known - nothing happens anyway. There should be ZERO loss from parks pantry in the non payment arena - or do those cameras work as poorly as the DMS cameras?
Most Americans and Makers are creatures of convenience. I don’t see how the cash box by the door of CA is not easy to use. I don’t use the 3D or lasers (yet) but when I show friends and family the DMS - I always point them out and tell them there are fees for usage of these items, and say “here is where you pay for them”.
In the event a member shows up and “decides” to print a poster, cut vinyl etc and is cashless, well they can leave the DMS and go to an ATM and return with said cash. If this is inconvenient then CHOOSE to print/ cut/make when you plan to have payment in hand.
My $50 opens the doors, keeps the “lights on” and supports the fantastic committees !
It does not mean I can take ANYTHING (consumables, tools, munchies, or other tangible items) I want with me when I leave.
The DMS should permanently ban those members that have that “mindset” or feel entitled to steal (not pay)when caught.
I see no point in adding more cameras - they obviously haven’t done anything positive to curb/eliminate theft/loss etc.
I think so far Laser committee has made the best effort to ensure payments for usage. They had a giant payment box with envelopes, where members can put usage time, ammount, time, and name. Then when they log into Active Directory, it’s logged and they can cross reference. For something like Art committee, something as simple as having an RFID kiosk tablet like @Brandon_Green made to help members keep track of their micropayments, would help keep people honest and make it convenient.
Two thoughts - neither of which are encumbered by facts.
One committee person opined that lack of correct change is a problem. Our consumable charges tend to be small, and this person believes that sometimes people don’t contribute because they only have a large bill but owe a small amount. I can’t verify whether this is correct, but along the lines of making it easier to pay … Would it be possible to put a bill changer in the galley?
I think it would be beneficial to set the expectations of members and the prospective member tour is one place to do that. It has been several years since I joined and hence I haven’t been on a “prospective member tour” in a while. I occasionally hear snippets of the tours, but that’s all. While some volunteers may state this, I don’t think I have ever heard someone say on the tour that we expect people to contribute cash for consumables. Rather, I typically hear laudatory comments about all the great stuff we have and provide and then comments about the usage fees for the few items with specific rates (wide format printer, for instance). Nor does the “Welcome to the Dallas Makerspace - Read this first” post on the talk forum set the expectation that people should contribute for consumables.
There will always be scoundrels in any population, but I’d like to believe that most people will choose to do what is expected of them if they know what that is, and it is easy to do.
As someone who (very) rarely carries cash it would be nice to have a kiosk similar to the parks pantry kiosk where I could pay for things. That system couldn’t be easier. Using PayPal sometimes works but is a hassle compared to ‘swipe and done’.
In my opinion the best way to promote desired behavior is to make it as easy as possible to do.
I have spoken about this idea with various people, but this may be the time to officially state my position. I use and like the Parks Pantry arrangement. Sure, the prices could be lower and things could be restocked more often, but it is a great convenience.
A common complaint about our current cash box method is “I only have a $20.”
My vision is to implement a system similar to the Parks Pantry, but for various consumables around the Space. It would probably be easiest to use our current RFID key fob or card for identification.
I am currently involved in a group project which has been taking up most of my free time. When that is wrapping up, I will take on building timers for our laser cutters…with the thought of having these hook into a future automatic billing system.
The only really difficult part of such a system would be accepting a deposit of cash into the system. I will need to talk with Paul Brown to see whether we can come up with something using his coffee machine. I really doubt that Parks Pantry will want to expand or open their system to cover our unique needs and even if they did, it may not be wise to depend on them in that way.
At art shows many vendors will use the square attached to a smart phone or tablet to pay. I wonder if there is any way that could be adapted to our use?
Now that doesn’t help with the cash issue, however
We have a Grainger vending machine at my shop, it is a pain in the ass to use. They do get used but the non-electronic friendly folks tend to have issues using them. I don’t know if this has been suggested or even possible but why can’t we just tie it into the monthly billing system for the membership fees?
Why not ask Vector if their contacts in the arcade community have any surplus sandwich machines with credit card capabilities? They would hold larger items such as goggles and we don’t care if the cooling system is working or not.
We had one. When DMS switched over to Parks Pantry it was in the way. I requested if electronics could have it and received no response. It was then sold / given away.
Up until recently we had such a machine in the kitchen area. There were many plans to use it as described above, but it never happened. As a result we got rid of the machine to gain access to the space it occupied.