Pneumatic nail gun compressed air

Is it OK for non-members, under my watch, to use our compressed air pneumatic nail gun? They would be using to make bird houses I have already pre-cut.

Quite frankly I don’t know the etiquette for guests at the maker space. That said there is no training or clearance for use of the pneumatic nailers, so it would come down to the DMS on guests.

Now that you have asked I gotta find out!

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Here is the quote from the rules.

Guests

  1. Guests can not inhabit the Dallas Makerspace without another keyed Member present.
  2. Guests are encouraged to become Members.
  3. Guests are not allowed to use tools and equipment, except as part of a scheduled class/workshop.
  4. Members are responsible for their guests and their actions.
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So I can’t have my sister come in and work with me unless it is part of a class?

She can work with you, she cannot use tools and equipment outside of a scheduled class. She is, of course, free to sign up!

Point of clarification here, is that DMS tools only, or what if a member brings their own tools and lets a friend use non-DMS tools AT DMS? I would assume DMS owned tools are what is specified by that rule, but unsure which is why I am asking.

@Josh_Melnick I have one and an air compressor that you are welcome to come by and use.

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Sounds kinda edge-case, but sure, I can’t see an instance where DMS would regulate the use of ones own tools at the space unless someone was being unsafe.

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Family memberships are incredibly cheap if you want to be on the Up and Up. Or you could make your bird house project into a small class. Both methods are more effort that just breaking the rules, but not really all that much effort.

@brsims is incorrect in his interpretation of this rule. The rule bans the use of all tools by visitors not in a class. This is a situation of liability not of protecting our tools. The previous rule read, No visitor can use power tools, because these were the tools most likely in misuse to hurt someone to the point of medical attention liability.

When people are on DMS property, DMS is liable for their actions. So if your not a member, we are accepting as much liability for you without any payment for use of our facilities, thus you are drastically limited to how much we are willing to open ourselves up to your liability. I hope this is clear.

Please…just don’t. You don’t speak for DMS, nor about its acceptance of liability. Your assertions are incorrect.

That is certainly one interpretation. I don’t agree with it, but that’s fine too. I’m not sure what the previous rule has do do with anything, but there again, whatever. I suppose it’ll get decided when Nick files a complaint against a member who let a non-member use a personally owned tool.

When people are on DMS property, DMS is they are personally liable for their actions because they signed a waiver.

and yes, before anyone wants to armchair lawyer me, I know they can still sue and a judge would ultimately make a ruling so neither you or I know the outcome here. Chances are good though that a waiver coupled with a persons willing involvement in an activity that can cause harm would get it tossed out (especially when using a non-DMS tool).

Edit- formatting

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Hey,
If you don’t see how publicly walking around a rule is bad for DMS that is on you and DMS.

The issue is liability. Where do you stop the bringing of a “tool”? The example above still used the DMS compressor and airlines. Those are DMS tools. Would it be appropriate to bring a small table saw for visitors to use to get around our safety concerns in the woodshop and the required classes they put in?

If someone just needed the floor space for a 1 day project could they bring in a crew and their own tools?

You answered your own question, DMS is liable no matter your scenario. That said, when we started the waiver program it was common knowledge that liability waivers by practice are not a protection in Texas litigation. But, they were at least something and would hopefully instill to member that we feel they are responsible for their actions at the space. I don’t know if we got that outcome, but it was the intent. We also have never had our liability waiver challenged in court, so there is no clue if it would hold up in any court, as we are a liability without much if any precedent behind our organization and use.

But, I’m not the one that will come running around the corner yelling put that nail gun down your not a member. I don’t know the majority of the members, but I would hope the members that know would try to follow our rules rather than playing mental gymnastics to usurp them. As all rules can be invalidated in one’s interpretation given that effort.

Good luck and hope you all have a Merry Christmas,
Nick

PS. Josh make sure to post pics of the Bird House, I hope it has a cool twist to the design, like having one of your giant butterflies on it.

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If it were to become a problem where people were constantly or even consistently trying to get around the rule, we’d change the rule.

But frankly, the reality you describe isn’t the one we live in. People don’t go to the trouble of bringing a saw or a tool chest to the space to circumvent the rule, they just tell their guests “it’s cool, no one knows who all the members are anyway.” and go on with the work.

Short of making people wear name badges (which has been discussed and rejected many times) we can’t practically enforce the rules we have with much efficiency except in cases of relatively serious abuse. I’m not up for strict interpretations of those rules that just serve to make life harder for the people who do their best to follow them. (rule breaker gonna break rules) This is especially true regarding the matter at hand. Believe it or not (I really don’t care which) taking DMS tools out of the equation does impact the liability scenario.

But as I said, there can be and are multiple interpretations of the rules as written, and that cannot be changed regardless of how carefully they are drafted. You have yours and that’s fine.

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I don’t see where this comment is helpful. @Nick wasn’t making any assertions about “speaking” for DMS. It appears to me he is just a long time member of DMS trying to give a little historical information that he has acquired in the years of his being a member of DMS.

Russell B. Ward

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