I don’t know anything about wood species but yellow pine is not allowed but is there other kinds of pine that are allowed?
1 Like
SYP (southern yellow pine) is a general term for the several types of construction grade pine species common in the southern U.S. region that are grown fast and harvested in bulk and sold/used while still very wet and sappy. Rule of thumb is if it is pine/fir/cedar from Lowes Depot or similar intended for rough construction, e.g. framing, then we don’t want it in the woodshop. This includes all pressure treated wood.
A second rule of thumb is just to stick with standard common (e.g. maple, poplar, cherry, walnut) or exotic wood species that have been kiln dried and are typically available from real lumber stores & suppliers, e.g. Wood World, Hardwood Lumber Company, Mckinney Hardwoods, etc.
If you haven’t already, please take the time to read through the information re: Woodshop policies and rules and general information and etc. here:
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:Wood_Shop
And the single best way, or at least one of them, to get up to speed and comfortable in any committee area and start meeting folks involved there, including the Woodshop, is to start attending the regular committee meetings. Check out the event calendar (link at top of page) to find out when/where/etc. for these.
1 Like
Also keep in mind that you can work with whatever pine you want to in the work areas outside woodshop and can use any of the portable tools.
I do a lot of Industrial builds.
Tables, shelving, ect.
The rule I was told and still go by is this:
Look at the tag (home depot, lowes, ect)
Syp: Southern Yellow Pine 
PT: Pressure Treated
SPF: 
Whitewood:
1 Like
I just want to go on record as saying that while I will follow the rule and respect it, I fundamentally disagree with it. I agree with the ban on pressure treated stuff due to fumes. And I agree with the ban on SYP on tools like the jointer and the planer, where changing out the blades is both expensive, and time consuming. I feel, however, that it is elitist and gatekeepery to ban it on tools like the table saw, the band saw, etc; tools where the blades are much cheaper, much easier to replace, and overall less impacted by the issues with SYP due to how the blades are designed. It effectively prices out poorer makers, who cannot afford to get the more expensive hardwoods, from using those tools.
1 Like
Sorry you are displeased Zach.
You have good points regarding just swapping out cheap home improvement saw blades. Only in DMS’ situation there are only a couple of slight issues with your thoughts.
- We don’t use cheap $20 saw blades in the $7500 table saw DMS provides for everyone’s use.
- We supply a wall of tools to use with budget wood.
It is called construction lumber for a reason. It twists and warps pretty soon after being cut. It is used to frame houses. We have all the tools customarily used with SYP construction lumber used by the construction industry. We even have a panel saw similar to the big ones at the big box stores in the back for your use with plywood and MDF sheets.`
So, in summary, DMS has two different tools sets in wood shop.
One for Fine wood working and another for construction wood projects
We try our best to cater to both groups of builders.
The price difference between SYP (prohibited) and white wood (allowed) construction lumber is measured in cents per piece, not dollars.
The difference in price for one 2x4x8 is 40 cents.
3 Likes
So how would you feel if you spent 400$ to make a nice project for yourself out of some exotic wood. You were treating yourself to a fine project for yourself. You go to the restroom while the blade you were using was still installed on the saw. While you were gone someone used that saw & cut some lumber that was on the banned list. You come back, unbeknownst to you that it was used for previously mentioned materials. You make your cuts only to find out it now ruins your project. Now multiply that factor by the amount of active woodshop users.
I can’t speak for you, but I’d be pretty mad & upset. I wouldn’t blame anyone else for feeling the same way.
You can achieve great results with standard tools as @SWA mentioned. Ive done it, as well as many people before me & after. At the end of the day, its not about me or you. Its about the majority.
2 Likes
I can’t speak for metalworking, but I have over 20 years of experience in woodworking. And I have never even heard of SYP gumming up a tablesaw or bandsaw blade bad enough that it would ruin a cut of another wood (unless the person was so unskilled that they just straight up broke the blade, but that is an entirely different issue). Can you provide ANY example of this happening, ever? Because I will be the first to admit that I don’t know everything about everything; but I am struggling to think of any scenario where that could even happen.
It sounds like I’m probably an amateur in comparison to you. But I will give it a go.
Wood sap gums up the blades and reduces their sharpness. Milling hardwood lumber requires both significantly more power and a much sharper blade than softwoods like pine. This why a cheap $100 table saw with a $20 red blade will cut pine all day long, but totally stall if you feed it some hard maple.
Power and a sharp blade are required for all the cutting boards made at DMS. Dull blades will create awful cuts and ragged edges.
Do lets ask Google about sappy blades.
I quickly searched and found a whole category of products specifically formulated to remove, wait for it, pine sap from saw blades.
So know we all know pine sap is no friend of the woodshop.
Okay, I know that syp is still technically wet and damp, but that article is talking about literally fresh from the being cut down trees. It does not leave enough of a residue to be noticeable. Especially in the amounts that we do it in DMS. Also, you know what else dulls saw blades? Cutting through hardwood.
@zacharymarkson the Woodshop Committee is having their monthly meeting Monday night. Obviously you have strong feelings regarding using yellow pine in the woodshop. Please feel free to attend and advocate for yellow pine to become legal in the woodshop. This meeting will be addressing several rule clarifications and a couple of new rules. I will list using yellow pine on the agenda, but you will have to propose the motion. The meeting details are on the calendar. we wil look forward to seeing you there.
4 Likes
Zack
thousand of Bf run through our blades a month… some months it is thousand of BF a week… I had my own projects damage because of pine pitch and sap. Causing me time and money…
we don’t use cheap tools or blades at DMS.
I’ve hear bears crap in in the woods, I’ve never seen a Bear crap in the woods… but I know bears live in the woods and they don’t have really nice tiled bathrooms…
why would companies make products to clean pine sap and pitch off blades? Would it be because it’s builds up on saw blades?
I’m a hard No !
A simple solution for you is to buy your own equipment and you can cut what you please…
I’ve seen the build up on the saw blades.
Pine sap gets on the paint of cars that park under the live trees and damages the paint…
1 Like
Was going to make a longer comment about member issues and how it affects the machines and existing tools which have problems, but at the end of the day SYP is banned on the stationary tools (for good reason.) Even on the miter saw you can see where the SYP glasses over/caramelizes when it goes through sap.
These machines see a lot of use so intentionally using/allowing woods that drastically decrease the lifespan or worse, affects the projects of others ought to be banned. No one wants to waste their, as you’ve put it, expensive materials because pine sap or tar gummed up a machine, dulled the blades or pads or bits. Or took out the tools you needed to work on a project during the only day you can between one’s commitments the entire week/month.
It seems more like the best solution is to update the wiki/hold a supplementary class after woodshop basics on how/where to acquire wood and what to expect cost wise. Or just a weekly update to some of the closest shops on the wiki for 3-5 of the most common woods bd ft.
Is a potential happy medium that a person had to supply their own blades? This would apply to table saw, miter saw, and band saws. I can make a pretty good case why this policy exception is more trouble than it is worth, but in the spirit of trying to get as many people making their make as possible, I thought I’d toss it out there.
Well we’re not using SYP at DMS, so maybe that’s the source of the clean blades you’ve noticed.
I was referring to the several years I was a member before we banned syp. Plus my own experience using my own tools and syp
Monkey see, monkey do. That’s the case against a policy exception.
2 Likes
The reason you’ve never seen it. Is because there are volunteers working behind the seem to keep the equipment in working order…
Despite the SYP being banded it still is brought into the space… some are caught and other are not, yet you can find pitch all over the blade and you can smell the pine in the air…