I can understand in wall where the smallness and flexibility really count. But where they can really get at it so can you.
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How do you come to believe that it is not waterproof? The Kerdi is a waterproof membrane.
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Yah, that’s why on a pier and beam, I’d probably go with a hybrid system of running copper in the crawl space and then coupling it by using PEX in the walls, just to be safe.
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The best subflooring is AdvanTech. Their website will tell you where you can get it, how to use it and how to tile over it (it will require and underlayment
http://www.huberwood.com/advantech/home-advantech
You have taken on a big job. Since you are doing it yourself, you have the opportunity to do a quality job. Contractors will rush through a job trying to get it done within the time frame and cost they have quoted you. The will not fix problems they encounter along the way and risk angering you by telling you more money and time is needed. Good luck.
Because it’s “assembled” with thin-set (which is not waterproof) at the joints.
I see now there is DITRA “uncoupling” and KERDI “waterproof” versions… DITRA would be the choice for this kitchen application (unless you use your kitchen in unusual ways) and it’s probably as good as any other “uncoupling” membrane, and likely better than some.
You maybe over thinking this. If you install following recommended practices, this system will not fail. The wicking action on that thin of a layer would take years of being completely submerged to ever have moisture even make its way on a 2” overlap. You don’t see those kind of conditions in showers or bathtubs or even steam rooms.
On a practical note, I’ve never seen a mud bed that is at least 10 years old that had not failed.
Kerdi works and is easy to apply. I would never use hard board and Redguard for water proofing or a liner and mud bed. They just don’t hold up over time.
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Ditra is also a vapor barrier as well as an uncoupling membrane.
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My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that these were installed improperly. All of those I have removed (a dozen or so) have been. I have been amazed at the “professional” installations I’ve seen, some by contractors with good names, that demonstrated a basic lack of understanding for how concrete-based tile construction functions. This is also why I do not put much faith in all the endorsements of Schluter products.
The good news is, this type of construction is remarkably resilient, and even doing a bad job, or using sub-standard products, and sometimes both, will often result in “acceptable” results. Often, even with the sloppy jobs of the unknown home builders I’ve seen, they still worked “okay” for a decade or more. For most people, that’s plenty, because they’re looking to re-do to keep up with fashion, or they’ve moved on and someone else is looking to re-do (maybe just to keep up with fashion).
To sum up: I’m sure Schluter is fine. It is expensive. I don’t believe their copy, but many people who probably know a lot more than I do, endorse it fully. Uncoupling membrane is probably a good idea in a kitchen in Texas; Schluter DITRA is one of those.
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Thanks for all of the input. I’m sifting through it. Yes, the vent hose to the left of the sink is a dryer vent. The laundry cabinet is directly behind the picture POV. I’m not keeping the laundry cabinet there permanently but it will be there until another spot is renovated.
There is an 84 Lumber near me in Garland. The house is just northeast of White Rock Lake in Dallas zipcode. Do they sell to the public? @ANDREW_MACHA the advantech flooring is sold there according to their website and wanted to price check. They seem like a good place to research other types of subfloor as well.
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Yes. Neat place.
(well, the one I’ve been into in Denton does)
I do need to add to the joists. The joists were orginally single Cedar boards, and someone added treated pine boards, which you can see in the picture. I read somewhere online that treated wood like that should not used under a house. Should I add to the joist support with 2x6 pine studs? Do you coat them with anything to prevent rot?
I’ve got plenty of Kerdi. Maybe we could try an experiment to see what kind of results the system has. Where is Science when you need them?
Most of the mud beds I’ve seen fail is because the installer never created a pre-slope before adhering the liner. Totally unacceptable practices. They then created a mud bed slope prior to tile. The water seeped through and could not drain once it hit the liner and just sat there for years. You may have already noticed this but I can usually tell if one has failed or not by simply catching a whiff of a musty smell in the shower.
I have seen tileable acrylic shower pans being used lately that seem pretty good if installed correctly.
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The fact that I’ve never seen them coated tells me the answer is “No”, it lets them breathe and stay dry in my opinion. But that is purely an empirical observation based on maybe a dozen houses built from the 1920’s to recent construction. But new things are always coming out.
Ten years ago the AdvanTech website said there was only one place in Oak Cliff that sold it which is where I got it. I am pretty sure that 84 Lumber will sell 4’ x 8’ sheets to anybody, I doubt they will sell a partial sheet. The AdvanTech sheets are very heavy, you understand after handling it why it is regarded as high quality subflooring. I recall it was more expensive that 3/4 inch plywood but if is far more substantial.
Trent,
What is the distance between your support beams under your floor joists? - meaning the distance that those current 2x6 joists rest on? Hopefully your piers are not made of cedar…
The crawl space should be well ventilated and not be damp - if it is - you have more work to do. A well insulated & properly vented crawl space is dry.
I’ll add “properly graded”. It’s amazing how often a yard will be built up, or sloped off inappropriately, or for myriad other causes, leading to “draining” to under the home…
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I was quoted $390 for 9 sheets of 3/4 inch Advantech with adhesive included. A really great price.
3/4 inch TG plywood, 1/2 inch cement backer board and 3/8 inch tile makes the floor level with the living room hardwood.
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Advantech is a great system. Price out using 1/4” hardiboard and Schluter Ditra. That will get you to the height you need. You won’t regret using an uncoupling membrane. Those old pier and beam homes move quite a bit.
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The distance between the support beams is 6 foot. They are double boarded 2x6s. The bottom of the joists are 16 inches above the ground level.
Yes, the property has a drainage issue. I’m going to install French drains on one side of the fence line but am unable to do so now.
According to the link provided, anything below 18 inches from ground level should be pressure treated pine.
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Just make sure your 2x6 joists are sturdy.
They are inexpensive so if there is any questionable ones replace or double them. Better now than finding out later…
If you do replace/add any joists - makesure to install them with the crown pointing up.
I’d strongly suggest doing any additional electrical, plumbing, gas lines(falls under plunbing), duct work etc before you commit to the subfloor install!
Good luck on the project!
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