Paying my $50 for years and now I can't use the lasers?

Laser
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You have at least 3 options.

You can speak directly to the chair of Laser and ask about the change in curriculum, as well as rumors of testing or retesting.

You can join the Laser committee and ask about the change in curriculum, as well as rumors of testing or retesting.

You can ask the board to address it as well.

This all might have been addressed at the member meeting Thursday, but it has not been communicated thru the laser committee or the board.

@PearceDunlap
@AlexRhodes @lukeiamyourfather @ESmith @Robert_Davidson @Lampy

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John, you can teach if you want if I understand correctly what was said during the membership meeting. Pearce said during the membership meeting that he’s no longer pursuing the testing and such that he wanted to. I’m going to try to teach some soon but I need to spend time with the Zing before I can do that.

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Just came across this title…I only get to come to the space about 4 times a year. I have yet to really use anything.

When I signed up almost two years ago, I was really excited. My excitement eroded quickly when I learned that the space is not easy for new members, and difficult for occasional users. I even offered to help with signage to assist, but other’s interests in making the space easy for new members was non-existent.

Each time I come to the space, the item I want to use is out of service or broken (laser, car lift, warehouse doors, internet, router table, 3D printer etc.)…glad someone else feels my pain. I’m attempting to get “re-certified”(?) on lasers as well this summer…and get certified on the wood CNC. But if I continue to get no benefit from my membership, I will likely pull my membership (plus the extras I’ve over-donate to consumables) and become an “as-needed” member; but even then, I doubt I’d be able to get my card reactivated to do something for a paid month. The last time I needed help with my card (left it at home), I was told to start a help ticket and it would be two or three days. I don’t think that person realized I was a current member for over a year and knew they had access to the system (while they were on their laptop)…so much for being excellent to one another.

So we’ll see. I’ll stick around until the end of November…if it doesn’t get any better for the occasional user, I’ll pull my funds; but if I’ve learned anything reading this forum, no one will care about the loss…in fact, someone will likely say something inappropriate or rude. It almost feels like MakerSpace exists for only a few people to enjoy the nice parts of it, and that membership drives are only to bring in a few more people to help pay the bills while hoping they don’t learn to use the equipment…I know that’s not everybody. Diplomat, Rhodes, Vector, Benjamin are a few people I’ve had the pleasure of meeting…but even as the uber volunteers that they are, they can’t do everything…but at least they are polite.

I don’t want to be the kind of member that only gives the monthly membership when I need to come…I want to feel good about donating to something; but for $720/year, I can buy my own tools, outfit my garage pretty well, and not pay the gas and tolls to get here, just to be disappointed that something else is broken or out of service…and then to be chided for not volunteering to do more.

Yes, it’s a volunteer organization…and I’m tired of being reminded of that. I am volunteering my money every month. And I’m a good member too. I don’t cause any damage, I cause little to no wear and tear, and I clean up other people’s messes…and while I’m working, while travelikng for business, while attempting to obtain a degree, I have no extra time and all I can do is donate my money…and if that’s not enough of a volunteer effort for people, I can take it away.

That’s my rant…thanks for reading it…

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The Dallas Makerspace can’t be everything to everyone. Sometimes it’s a great thing that it’s run by volunteers and other times it’s a deal breaker. I’ve been to several commercial makerspaces that are more tailored to the infrequent user where they’ll cut things for you and do one off training anytime. Their rates are from $150 to $500+ a month and they are not open 24/7 so there are trade offs. I hope you continue to support the organization. I also hope there are volunteers willing to teach laser training classes soon. When I get up to speed with the Zing I’ll teach some classes too (sans honorarium since I’m not eligible).

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@lukeiamyourfather “sans honorarium”…is that because you are a board member?

And I’m not going anywhere…just very frustrated that my last 4 trips to the space were fruitless.

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That’s correct, directors are not eligible for honorarium or any other kind of compensation. If you have ideas about how to make things more functional for your usage pattern (long hiatus between visits) please send me a private message or start a new thread. I can’t promise anything but I think there are a lot of members in your situation and I think it’s worth discussing and trying to accommodate.

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Suggestion here. maybe there need to be some one on one classes available on special request. Skip the honorarium on them. I would be willing to teach some. I intend to plan on a couple of jewelry open shop nights, monthly for that sort of thing.

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Long hiatus members… I would be one of those… And I will say that having the knowledge and skills I acquire obsoleted by what as far as I can tell is an arbitrary change of equipment, is frustrating… Add to that a requirement of a new class to slow and extend the time it will take to regain the abilities I had on the old equipment and it starts to seem like my money would be effectively spent buying my own equipment

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This comes up occasionally, it would seem.
Here’s one of the latest threads about such things that I can remember (and find):

I stick to my suggestion, rolling memberships.
I think roughly the same problems noted in that thread still exist, plus the added wrinkle of the push for “certification required”.

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While I understand and share the frustration, the decision to get rid of the Full Spectrum Laser wasn’t arbitrary. The machine was in need of some serious maintenance and the company was no longer willing to support what they deemed to be an obsolete product.

A lot of research went into selecting the best replacement we could afford, which is how we purchased the Thunder Laser. While waiting for delivery on that, we had an opportunity to acquire a used, but in excellent condition epilog laser, which we did.

Now, unfortunately, all three of the lasers we own have different procedures and software interfaces. That is not a decision, but a result of not having unlimited funding to buy these. In an ideal world we would have only epilog lasers, but new the small one would cost almost as much as we spent on the Thunder, and I hesitate to think what they would charge for a laser the size of the Thunder.

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The real point of my original post is being lost. Why does the training have to be given by a busy, underappreciated, not enough time in the day, human being. Spending public money on expensive tools to only be used by a few due to a artificial limitation in training is not excellent. I and my kids have used the laser for years without incident, a written guide on the new tools should suffice.

Anybody too smart, too proud, or too lazy to read through it, will go to training and not pay attention.
Many others will go to training, pay attention, then, 4 months later when they first use the tool, forget most everything.
I written guide would help.

I decided to learn PERL one day for my job, and I got a book and read it and looked up what I needed on line. I decided to teach my son arduino, so I bought a book. He decided to learn python so he bought a book.

Having a friendly, helpful human around when you have a odd question is nice but training can and should be automated.

So the laser can be broken in a hundred different ways. Make a list of don’ts. Make a nice guide. I would but I can’t even get access to the drivers for the tool. I would be glad to take that list of don’ts and work on ways to eliminate those risks.

Anyway, I think we need to ease up on the live training requirements and provide better documentation.

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I have been a member for almost a year now and I agree with rolbrey…

Sand blaster training, really?

I come in one day a week at best, lately one day a month, and it seems like every time I want to do something there is some new training required.

There should be some youtube videos, some online documentation, and then if someone still doesn’t feel confident using a piece of equipment, then they can seek out someone for assistance to get them up to speed.

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With 1000 members and growing, live human training is impractical, even for a checkout. There are 3 lasers, and separate checkouts on each one? for 1000 people or more? 3000 checkouts? If there were a class a day the waiting list would be a year. This may have worked years ago, but we have outgrown this model. Even the guy who trained me years ago in the old location is locked out today.

We are signing people up faster than we can qualify them for tools. This is great for those who are qualified, 1000 people paying dues to spend on tools and only a few inside people can use them. It seems the incentive is to not qualify the masses.

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I was teaching the laser classes 10-12 times a month, and had tried to increase the frequency of classes for the new lasers. These classes were put on hold. Now that the hold seems to have been lifted, I will again try to get everyone that wants laser training, trained. And Luke will help as well.

@rolbrey the written guides linked above are designed exactly for the situation you first posted: to guide someone thru the process after class or a long period away.

To change the systems, join the groups that make the decisions.

Training for most tools is for 1) Safety and/or 2) Extended life of the tools. No one wants to put up obstacles. Well, very few.

The Laser maintenance team, esp @lukeiamyourfather @PearceDunlap @kbraby & Chuck spend at least 10 hours a week fixing the lasers.

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Put me on this list.

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I think the better phrasing would be we are purchasing tools faster than we can qualify people to use them.

What happened with the laser committee is that we had a tool that much of the makerspace like and used. We then built a supplemental laser which much of the membership did not like more than the one they already used and liked, so they didn’t learn how to use the supplemental laser. Then we purchased 2 more lasers and removed the laser that a majority of DMS like, used, and were qualified on.

This then exposed how few where qualified on the lasersaur and left much of the DMS in a lurch over the ability to use any laser at DMS. At that point John (@talkers) pushed forward a training class for the new lasers and started offering 4 plus classes a week. I use the phrase pushed because @PearceDunlap (laser committee head) had concerns about the quality of the class, in particular pointing out some of the new hiccups from the less known lasers. At this point we had a disagreement in the committee and Pearce refuted John’s class and said he would put together a curriculum. But, we are all volunteers and Pearce was trying to finish his projects, while I’m sure being berated by requests for more classes on the laser.

Pearce under pressure of the membership, relinquished his denial of John’s class.

I think John ruffled feathers in the laser committee by pushing his class before Pearce agreed with it. But, there was a lot of demand for classes, which is now obvious as well. So I’m sure much of the membership would agree with John’s pushing.

That all being said, we are all in this thing together. When the lasers break, Pearce is the guy you will often find fixing them. He has also taken on the responsibility of the laser committee head a job John didn’t want. Both of these tasks make Pearce no money and almost an equal amount of thanks. John on the other hand able to claim honorarium, making this whole issue pretty lucrative and he is also gaining much thanks from the students in his classes.

So now that the dust has cleared, We need to remember to thank both John and Pearce for their help at DMS. We would have laser without classes if we only had Pearce and we would have classes with broken lasers if we only had John. We get in scuff ups, but we need to all shake hangs and work together when they are done.

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I would phrase what @Nick stated slightly different, but he is pretty accurate.

Regarding the thing about using the E-Stop button:
On the LaserSaur and FSL, these did become the on/off switch per Luke, who was Chair at the time. I taught this based on his instruction. Pearce in May pointed out these switches cannot handle the duty cycles, so not to use them. The LaserSaur does need an on/off switch. The current workaround to reboot to is unplug it. I hope when the new tube arrives and is installed, we add this.

On the Thunder, the E-stop fires the Laser, even if the lid is open. I discovered this “feature” when working with Luke, and we relayed it to the committee. It was never in the curriculum. The Thunder has a working on/off switch for the Laser and for the Machine itself.

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In regards to the automated training videos, I would be more that happy to help shoot and edit these. I couldn’t promise a weekend turn around or anything…

I was hoping to do this with all other parts of the space as well. @JayJohnson600 filled me in on an idea to make a video series answering the top three questions for each committee.

Would anyone be interested in starting a discussion on this topic?

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WTF?

!!!

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Yes, it was quite the surprise. What is seems to do is discharge the energy in the tube.

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