New Automotive Rule for Major Work

https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20180427#New_Automotive_Rule_for_Major_Work_.28Tom_Tansey.29

Problem: We have been having more and more new members take inordinate lengths of time working on vehicles in the auto bays. They often claim ignorance of posted rules. They often don’t have any idea how long a project will take before starting it.

Solution: You must be a member for at least 45 days, AND have attended at least one Automotive Committee Meeting, before starting any major project in automotive that may take more than 4 hours to complete.

This is now a new rule in Automotive and will be posted soon. It is being presented here so that it will be adequately documented and can be discussed.

Relevance: Blocking an automotive bay for multiple days prevents other members from being able to do work and is unfair to other members.

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I see that this rule is going to the Board as a courtesy notification to the Board and for discussion, since Automotive is empowered to make their own rules regarding their own committee area.

Would you like me to update the Automotive Committee Rules page? I would list it as rule number 1 since a lot of people don’t always read all the way to the bottom.

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Yes please

Thanks chris!

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Done. :blankspace: :blankspace:

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This would seem to make it a lot more difficult to do anything more than the most basic work. And punishes everyone for the actions of a few.

4 hours seems way too short.

I fail to see what benefit is conferred by attending a a single Automotive committee meeting.

I can also see several ways to game this system.

Points for trying to address the problem, but this doesn’t seem like a prefferred solution.

Note that since joining I’ve had my vehicle in the automotive area only once or twice. One of those times was a serious wiring job that took well over 4 hours. i don’t need the resource often, and adding barriers to use makes my membership less vauable to me. Enough of this and we’ll loose members.

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:blankspace: :blankspace:

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I don’t mind the tightening of the process, esp. the 45 days, but I don’t personally like the use of the word ‘may’, since that’s potentially anything. If you have ever seen me try to change my oil, you know what I mean! I suggest the (only somewhat less vague) word ‘likely’.

Also, as a happy medium, is it reasonable to require just informing (@)Team_Automotive about a potentially lengthy project, like that other guy did today in separate thread regarding his transmission fix/change?

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So can we simply attend a committee meeting for all the other equipment in the space ? Or are we going to have to start mandatory training in automotive ?

Just pointing it out that this is different than the way we handle other similar situations.

Hope the automotive committee meetings are going to be frequent…

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I’m down with this level of common sense restriction.

My question is this: the timing of Auto Committee meetings is always on days and at times when I have work; I can’t take off to get to the meetings, and I’ve never been to an official meeting as a result. Will this change mean I’m ineligible to take on more complex projects than oil changes in the future, even though I have taken part in these kinds of projects in the past and am familiar with the committee leadership? If not, what criteria will be used to determine when someone who isn’t available during weekday evenings can qualify for working on stuff? Do training sessions, such as the lift training, count?

I’ve had a car stuck on the lift overnight myself, so I’m partially to blame here. There are definitely unavoidable, unforeseen circumstances- who could have expected a steering knuckle to shatter while sliding out an axle stub? But doing what we can to mitigate these is definitely important. I still feel bad about my whole run-in with this.

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What’s the definition of “major”?

What’s the definition of “may” take longer than 4 hours? I’ve had oil-and-spark-plug changes take longer than that when stuff like stuck oil filters and broken plug wires happen.

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I think it may be getting confused. It seems the rule states that you CAN take longer than 4 hours, if you jump through a couple of hoops, Becoming active in the committee is a good thing, you can help shape the rules.

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I too expect to find it quite difficult to make an Automotive meeting, particularly as there seem to be none scheduled. I can appreciate the interest in preventing white van situations, but perhaps some other method can be devised to prevent them? A message to the chair/committee, a posting in Talk, a solid commitment to clearing the bay or a reasonable timeline for completion with penalties for failure perhaps?

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Kris,

you’ve been a member for longer than 45 days right? (this is not targeting you by the way)

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More automotive policy changes are coming

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I am interested to have feedback to see if the following would be plausible and help our situation:

  1. Could we have a “Queue Board” that could specify Lift vs. non-lift projects, also including estimated time/type of project - this could be helpful in knowing how many other people are waiting for automotive bay and maximize efficiency.

  2. Possibly have a limit of 1 long project at any given time within an alotment of time to complete project. Maybe the member would need to speak to someone either at automotive meeting/Talk/whatever is deemed necessary.

  3. Maybe have a long project queue that extends thru the month so people can work around the other large projects to keep high efficency of the bays.

I would be willing to help setup whatever system that may be beneficial for the group if that is desirable.

Any thoughts?

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I agree with Zach - And like him I do 99% of my work at home. Fewer interruptions, more compressed air, my tools, my music, my fridge…just no hvac in my garage.

So far everyone that has responded to the “new rule” is a veteran member so it is a moot point.

If a new or potential member doesn’t want to wait or cannot wait 45 days to change an engine or transmission or similar - then I am sure they probably had an alternative plan in the first place. I don’t see that as a loss.

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A possible option to committee meeting:

I would propose creating Automotive 101: cost $20. Could includes lift training, auto work safety, disposal of fluids and parts, - proper use of jack stands, floor jacks, what types of specialty tools and test equipment is available, use of bays, clean-up, returning tools, work rules, etc.

These can be held at various times (eliminates “I can’t make committee meetings”) would be about 75 minutes long is my guess.

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Just pointing out that many members join because we have an auto bay. We have over 150 active lift users. Personally I would not want to join and have to wait to use a tool my membership pays for because a few bad situations ruined it for the rest of the folks. I like the idea of a basics class ( charge or don’t) but if you decide to go that way make sure you have plenty of teachers to help out. I know you are unhappy with the white van situation and understand why. Perhaps an alternative could be submitting a job plan for review of you or one of your committee members to approve if it’s a long project? It’s difficult enough to get in the bay on a weekend especially during race season and having an alternative to give to members new and old would be an option for you to consider. I don’t know the best way to handle this problem but I encourage welcoming new members. I’m curious as to what the rest of your committee would have said to this rule change if they had it in place when they joined. Not everyone has a home garage and tools and I know the auto bay is a big draw. In the end it is your call.

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Maybe a class on moodle would suffice?

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Any idea how many members join with the explicit intent of doing a specific automotive project and then cancelling their membership immediately thereafter? (i.e., basically a $50 rental garage …)

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