To whomever used aerosol lubricant on the MuiltiCam, please fucking stop. You are damaging the machine.
If you see anyone near the MultiCam with a spray can please ask them to stay away from the machine.
6 Likes
I don’t know anything about people spraying the machine - but am curious as to how it harms the machine.
Also today was helping someone cut an inlay in an unfinished (raw wood) cutting board and a huge glob of brown grease dropped from the Z and stained his board. Sort of un-fun.
It washes off the grease ultimately leaving the lead screw bone dry.
It dissolves the plastic nut cover.
It is contrary to MultiCam’s instructions.
When I left the machine Friday night everything on and behind the spindle mounting plate was clean. The lead screw had a thin coat of clearish-white silicone grease.
I did not have the patience nor the time to redo that effort this week. When I last left the machine I had wiped down what I could reach and had left a thin coat of clearish-white silicone grease on the lead screw.
3 Likes
I appreciate your efforts. If you want to show me how, I don’t mind doing that when I see it needs it.
The machine is running very well.
1 Like
Excellent!
When are you usually at DMS?
I’m pretty high risk so I try to limit it to early mornings before too many others show up… Just once or twice a week. I think I might try to knock some stuff out tomorrow morning.
1 Like
To whomever continues using aerosol lubricant on the MuiltiCam, FUCKING STOP! You are damaging the machine.
There is a brand new tube of the correct lubricant in the cabinet. It’s labeled Super Lube Silicone Lubricating Grease. There is enough in the tube to last months. In the worst case, lubricating the lead screw takes 15 minutes.
I guess I’m going to have to make another sign.
4 Likes
Has anyone watched the video to see who’s doing this? My guess is they aren’t ever on Talk.
I have not.
That’s my guess as well.
If you have a timeframe I would be happy to look.
2 Likes
I arrived at DMS last night about 8PM (2020-Nov-27 2000). One person was using the machine roughly over the two hours before I arrived.
I don’t have tight timeframes before that. I know at least one other person used the machine between my previous visit, which was Tuesday or Wednesday evening, and last night.
Tell us how you really feel about spray lube on the MC:)
First off I was on it between 10am - 5pm trying to work out a problem. I didn’t lube it. So looking after 5 - 8 might be a good shot. Or go back the day before.
What is the tale tale sign of someone using spray lube?
White greasy residue on top of the Z axis plate. It has the appearance of a white powder.
The Z axis squeaking because the solvent washes off the silicone lubricant.
Black goo on and around the lead screw because the solvent dissolves the plastic washer protecting the brass nut.
I didn’t notice anything while using it, but I wasn’t looking for a white residue either. I have spoken to several users and a board member regarding resetting the spoil system and defining a new user supplied spoil board policy. Matt & I are putting together an outline for users to comment on and refine. I expect we will have a mad rush of new/inexperienced users on the machine once COVID lifts. Now seems like the smart time to refine expectations and requirements. If you let me know when you are planning to visit next I would really like to share the basic thoughts so far as they exist, machine-side. I expect you will have some great ideas to be rolled into the conversation. My goal was to put a decent plan forward for power users to start with, and then refine into a great one to be implemented. A PM chart with lube info and frequency, that includes sign-offs, should probably be posted machine side. This should keep the well intentioned from doing things that aren’t best practice. One item that will be required is the remachining of the phenolic substrate where the two fires occurred(front two zones) as they are both proud in areas.
If you have the ability to meet please leyt me know and I will try my best to coordinate around your schedule.
Thanks,
B
2 Likes
When I first joined DMS, the spoilboard was loose on the table. If you attached your work to the spoilboard and accidentally leaned against the table in the wrong way during a bit change, you would lose you position on the project you were working on. Having a functional vacuum system AND having the spoilboard “captured” in some way is critical to multi-start/stop projects. That is one reason I used double stick tape to hold the zone spoilboards in place.
I gather from the Talk discussion that the spoilboard sections are loose again. If that is an accurate conclusion … I highly recommend you find a way to rectify that issue.
If you go to a “user supplied spoilboard policy” you need to be sure the user has a stationary surface to put the added spoilboard on.
Also, relative to the dissing of vacuum holddown … vacuum systems require some work to set up and maintain. If you treat them right, they have great benefits. As you work through the issues that exist in the moment … beware the tossing of the baby with the bath water phenomenon.
2 Likes
@bertberaht
A few of us have been informally discussing this over the last couple of days. So far going to a requirement of using a secondary spoil board has been universally embraced. The shop possibly provide a couple of smaller sleds, and users needing a larger surface could bring their own. I am hoping to work through a solution with other users and then present it to Ian for consideration. The other issue that will need to be decided is the penalty for a user that still directly cuts on the new reference bed.
A question you might have an opinion on is this. Can we move away from multiple spoil board sections to a couple MDF sheets as required, or do we need to keep the six-separate boards with their sealed edges in order to maintain sufficient vacuum? In other words, would we loose too much vacuum via the adjacent out of zone surface? Not having to cover unused surface with paper is a very nice feature of your design.
Thinking this thorough is still in a rough state.
I am at makerspace now (likely until 2 PM Sunday 11/29/20)./ I was hoping to use the multi-cam but the spoil boards are off and I don’t know if it is okay for me to try putting them back on. If anyone is around and willing to work on it, I am willing to help (and learn). I am waiting for a 3D print to finish so will be here a while. If you want help at another time, please text me (eight 1 7 nine 9 4 four 4 one 1) and I will try to come.
You don’t have to keep the separate zone boards BUT you do need to avoid vacuum loss sideways through the board. Air follows the path of least resistance. If you cover the top of a piece of MDF but leave edges or unobstructed surface adjacent to the covered area … the vacuum differential will simply match the pressure drop incurred by whatever path the air needs to take to get to the vacuum source. That is why even with a single active zone, you still need to cover the balance of the zone with freezer paper to hold a small object. (There was a video showing how to do this.)
I have made the following suggestion several times. Here it is for the final time in specific detail:
- Surface the phenolic so it is flat.
- Take a full sized 5’x10’ sheet of Ultralight MDF and seal all four edges with foil tape or other method of your choice.
- Use gasketing around all six zones as added by @themitch22 and make sure you know the coordinates of all six individual zone perimeters.
- Place edge sealed sheet over the gasketing in a way that does not disturb the gaskets.
- Invent a way to secure the sheet on the table bed so it cannot move laterally or vertically. One option might be to tap the phenolic, counterbore the sheet to match, and use nylon pan head screws (1/4-20 or similar).
- With the board secured on the gaskets, turn the vacuum on to uniformly pull the board down to the phenolic. Now cut thin kerfs (1/4" or less) along the outer perimeter of all six zones. These cuts must be outside the gasket lines. Cut as deep as you think you can without going all the way through the sheet. If the phenolic is flat and the gaskets are not too thick to compress flush with the top of the phenolic, you should be able to get within 0.05" of the bottom of the board. (Keep the vacuum on continuously through Step 7.)
- Clean out the kerf and fill with a non-porous material like Bondo or anything similar that is router bit friendly AND will flow/can be pushed to the bottom of the kerf.
- Let the material in the kerfs cure completely. Once cured, you can turn the vacuum off.
- When ready to put into service, turn the vacuum on and surface the new spoilboard to yield a clean, flat work surface.
That should give you 6 tight zones that have minimal lateral loss while avoiding loose zone section boards. Since this is more than a trivial amount of work, protecting it with thin secondary boards (that also have sealed edges) will be an important user obligation.
As for @Chris_Fazio 's sensible request to consider addressing the CNC dust for the benefit of the balance of the Woodshop … consider taking the cyclone dust collector (used to be by the Laguna band saw) you already own and put it inline between the CNC and the Felder. Since it is a large flow unit, you could also connect the sanding stations to is as well. That way all the fine dust generators will go through 2 stages of separation, the cyclone WILL capture the lion’s share of the fine dust, and the small amount that then goes to the Felder should not be a problem anymore. Make sure you have a simple, low maintenance way to alert users that the cyclone collection barrel needs to be emptied. And I would put a noise dampening shroud around the motor since it is a fairly noisy beast!
4 Likes
Bert -
I don’t think anyone intends to “diss” the vacuum hold down. It does precisely what it is supposed to and does it well. Thank you for your past efforts in this regard and for your suggestions above.
The real issue is with respect to the spoilboards and in particular, spoilboards in a shared environment. We simply don’t have the manpower or inclination to constantly remediate their abuse and some of us (who have no power beyond persuasion, mind you) are inclined to move to a user-supplied auxiliary spoilboard model, where no bit comes close to the machine’s boards, which ideally will always be smooth and coplanar with the bed. Fixing work to the user’s auxiliary spoilboard will be the user’s problem, though we can suggest some good methods for doing so, including masking tape + superglue, polymer brads, bradded or screwed hold-downs, etc. The vacuum will be used to hold the auxiliary spoilboard to the machine’s spoilboard and nothing more.