More Automotive Bays w/ Lifts!

How much $$$? Ball park figure.

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The only sketch done so far by the expansion team is the completely empty expansion space shown with (mostly correct) existing space. Lots of other people have made conceptual sketches of their suggestions. Unless it was the sketch I was describing, it’s someone’s suggestions.

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More space and more lifts YES. and more work space for individual tasks - such as component work without the vehicle in the bay.

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The LIFT is rated at 7000 pounds - that IS the LIMIT.

I didn’t install it - I only donated it.

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The initial lift class documented it at 6,000 lbs, so 7K does indicate there has been a lower limit communicated in the class. My truck, (5,600 lbs empty) if centered perfectly, and using the 2 inch blocks has the running board covers just making light contact and getting cosmetic scratches. (I know it isn’t carrying weight, because I can flex them off of contact easily by hand)

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Or changes the lighting like opening the garage door. I like the idea but if this is something we want to gather data on perhaps a range finder above the lift would be a better option. What you’ve done though is still really cool, I’m thinking of other ways we can use this!

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Please teach a class on this. I wish I knew some image recognition stuff.

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IF I may suggest it to the auto committee, perhaps having one bay that can be “rented” out for a week at a time, for those who need more time than just a few hours or overnight, might be a good idea.

Perhaps also set the price point at something like $100 per week with a sign up queue and a reminder system to keep track of the time used and place in queue. It would also need to have a policy of no concurrent users. (i.e. no one could ask for an extension. They would instead have to sign up again.) It would also need a cancellation policy in place so that members can get their parts in order for their project.

-my $.02. Spend it wisely.

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Yes we do it was a project I started last year

If you can afford to burn $100 a week storing your car in an auto bay, find a rental storage place that’s cool with it. It’d be cheaper and it’d save the rest of DMS membership the hassle of working around whatever junk is taking up space for some dude with cash to burn.

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I was thinking 100/week wasn’t enough to discourage anyone. I would think 50/day would be sufficient. Jack Junkies did this several years ago, and it was much more expensive than 50/day.

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I don’t think “storing” is what is viewed here. It is there are times when working on a car it is in a certain state of disassembly it can’t be moved and is more efficiently worked on in one spot over several days even if charged for the space. Sometimes something breaks if working on wheels and associated parts and car can’t be rolled out - at least not safely. $100 week probably isn’t inspirational enough. Paying giving their wallet a $30-$50/day ($210 - $350 a week vs $100) spanking is for most people inspiration to get it done quickly and probably more effective than and less stressful for all involved. We allow people to occupy tables overnight/days for glue-ups, etc. tying up a resource, this is no different, just a larger item.

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The place in Denton charged $10/day for indoor overnight storage. (Of course they also charged for the in-bay time separately, whether or not the car also stayed overnight – but we have already established we don’t charge for that.)

The Acme makerspace in Dallas charges $125/mo for a vehicle spot. (No A/C, far fewer amenities and supplies than us.)

I haven’t been able to bring my car by because the work I need to do could theoretically extend over to a second or even third day, and I’m just not willing to basically go without sleep and eating fast food for over 48 hours straight - again - just to fix my car and still comply with the rules. (That’s not at all a knock on the rules – though it may be a knock on the few but very visible folks who should certainly know better leaving their car there overnight, sometimes for multiple nights, and blatantly violating those rules just because it’s inconvenient for them.)

I’d pay $100 for a week-long spot in a heartbeat. Bonus: the spot would be open again in 2-3 days. I imagine that’s true for most folks that would be wrenching on their car, since the typical weekend is two days long… it’ll be 3 days or they’ll be paying for a second week. (So there’s your de-facto $50/day, maybe down to $33 a day on occasion but in a much more palatable sales pitch – and a more logical one, considering that a car can already stay there for a day or more for free as long as the owner stays with it for the majority of the time outside of short breaks.) I think it’s a win/win for the space.

One aside: the metric of member usage data as the criterion for allocating usage of space seems like it would fail from being overly simplistic. If we were to make that our primary criterion for the current space, we’d already be doubling or tripling the size of 3D printing and laser, we’d throw away the HAAS, frankly probably get rid of the Clausing and 50% of the floor space of machine shop as well – heck, we’d get rid of 50% of the floor space of everything in the space except E-lab, 3D, woodshop and laser, triple the space of E-lab and laser, quadruple or more the space of 3D printing, get rid of the Creative Arts digital lab (or make it whatever you can fit in 4x4sqft – or maybe just put Fired Arts and Jewelry in the same space as the current digital lab and make all three fit there)… this is getting a bit ridiculous, which I think pretty much illustrates the point I’m trying to get across.

The point is: some amenities just take more space to provide. We can provide them or we can not. If we choose to provide them, how much space they are given can’t just be decided on independently of what the amenity itself is – that, as hopefully is obvious from the above, would be ridiculous. “Yeah, we can have an auto committee – what can you fit in a 6x6ft space? Sorry, but your utilization is only 50% more than Jewelry…”

If we added the bays, during non-peak hours they wouldn’t get used. Just like sometimes the woodshop is empty. We don’t start rolling cars in there because of that, last I checked. But peak-hours load of the bays is pretty dang high pretty dang often. If we’re adding space, we should certainly add space for auto – as with all committees. Allocating new space proportional to the percentage allocated in the old space would be a far more reasonable starting point, given that the old space basically “works” (at least it “works” for us a lot better than if the current space were redesigned along the same simplistic usage metric that some seem to want for the new space).

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(…ok, so that was a really long aside.)

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Before this goes too far, storing vehicles inside the building is very specifically against our lease, and would cause the fire marshal great distress. I’d vote against it if proposed to the board.

Things always go wrong with automotive, it’s expected. I think our focus is better off looking for more ways of removing vehicles when something critical happens and you need to wait for parts.

Also did some more research, if we store or park more than 10 vehicles per year, we could be classed as a Vehicle Storage Facility, and then we have even more laws to follow. We have to also have a license for it. https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/towing/vsfrules010116.pdf

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This may potentially be a dumb question, as I imagine it’s already “answered” either in our lease or statute or gawd knows what –
what constitutes “storage?”

I’m not asking trying to armchair-lawyer this stuff or anything – I’m just curious insofar as, say, a car is parked inside the space for 30min for an oil change, or it’s in for 3h because somebody’s replacing a radiator and water pump, or 12h for an axle, etc – is there some point where the car ceases to be “worked on” and begins to be “stored?” Or is it that if it’s being worked on continuously it’s not “stored,” and so there’s a line where it stays in the space not “messed with” that changes it from “worked on” to “stored,” like if you leave it in there for 30min to grab fast food it’s “worked on” but if it stays 8/24/whatever hours the lease considers it “stored”?

Again, not looking for armchair-lawyer stuff; just the practical answer as to what would get us in trouble specifically according to our lease, is what I’m asking. I really don’t know much about that in this particular case (and don’t even know if that’s actually a thing that’s been determined).

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BTW – the reason I ask specifically for our lease is because this document specifically doesn’t apply to us.
“Administrative Rules of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation” – very first section: “These rules are adopted under the authority of the Texas Occupations Code, Chapter 51 and Chapter 2303.”
You neglected to read the governing statute for the rules. (Again, kids: law is hard. Don’t armchair lawyer.)

Texas Occupations Code, Chapter 2303, Subsection 2303.003:
(a) This chapter does not apply to a vehicle stored or parked at a vehicle storage facility with the consent of the owner of the vehicle.

The authorizing chapter of the rules you posted specifically exempt vehicles stored with consent. (Makes a lot of sense if you note the “impoundment” and “abandoned nuisance vehicles” rules later – the administrative rules you pulled up are for towing services.)

That line exempting storage with consent is also repeated in section 85.20 of the rules you posted, btw. But if there were any ambiguity, Texas Occupations Code would govern anyway.

Think of it this way: if it did apply to us, we would already be in violation of the administrative rule (“storing or parking”) as soon as we rolled the 11th distinct car for the year into the bay.

And the necessary-for-my-job disclaimer: I am not an attorney licensed by the State Bar of Texas, and none of what I say is formal legal opinion nor should be taken as such. For an authoritative opinion on this, ask a lawyer. (As we did when we created the auto space in the first place, as I recall, who didn’t limit us to working on only 10 cars per year.)

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Are you BMW George?

An old version of our lease is available here: https://dallasmakerspace.org/w/images/6/65/Dallas_Makerspace_Lease_Monetary.pdf

You’ll find it’s less allowing of our current situation and definitely prohibits this threads proposed solution.

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Unfortunately so. 12345

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By the way, I have a couple of questions I plan on asking our lawyer. You bring up a knowledge gap I definitely have so I’ll put this on this list of questions.

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