MIG Only as First Acquisition for Metalshop Welder?

im not all that familiar with tig. as our shop doesnt tig anything. i do know our current one is incapable of welding aluminum. Lee has mentioned looking for a good one capable of aluminum.

You need AC to TIG weld aluminum, and I would hope that it is considered a requirement. You can learn a lot about TIG with a DC unit, but you won’t do aluminum on DC.

TIG, and preferably AC is on my wish list of skills to learn.

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Lee has given me some hands on time with the current tig on some steel. and ill say it does alright. once you get past its quirks. the touch ark setup isnt as desirable as the foot petal welders. im sure he is all for getting a nice tig. as i think thats his favorite welding type.

I’m not sure if this is in response to my post, but to be clear, if the plan is to get dedicated machines for each process, then let’s do it. I was not trying to be sly, and intended to say " I hope we can get good machines for each process, including but not limited to TIG and GMAW."

Yes, yes, yes.

As a side note, at least one multi voltage (i.e. 110 & 220) machine might make work inside the 'Space easier…

If I were getting a machine, I would get a Miller Multimatic 200 w/ the TIG
kit. They run around $2200 and Can operate on 120 or 240.

@texastboneking I just found that just highlighting the desired section and hitting reply works on Android running Chrome. You need not wait or fenagle for the grey quote box.

@william_petefish
I like the look of this, and personally think it might be the way to go on this instance. So far, though, popular opinion in the talk’Space says I’m wrong and no self respecting welder would be caught dead using such a foul contraption.

I’m going to support new equipment period. But I think we should weigh such decisions carefully and be wary of going at it half cocked. Thank you for weighing in.

I’m a new guy to the metal shop and DMS. I took the MIG welding course at DMS recently and learned something about MIG welding, but I am by no means an expert. However, I believe the ALL IN ONE solution creates frustration on the part of the non-professional because of the amount of setup time required, which is sometimes caused by changing the mode of the welding equipment.

One of the main reasons I joined DMS is that I can’t afford all of the awesome tools that DMS offers. Another consideration is the duty cycle of the equipment. The average home equipment won’t stand up to the DMS usage cycle. Both of these should be considered when purchasing new equipment. I vote for the single type welding equipment. I am always a fan of buying quality over cost, too.

I’ll leave it to the committee chair and the board to determine affordability.

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Jast, it really depends on what you’re doing. Small welders can lay good beads and hold fast on thicknesses they are rated for. You can stack beads and run multiple passes to make stronger welds on thicknesses a little higher than your machine is rated for. Many machines start out with a maximum thickness of 3/8" which is pretty hefty for most hobby applications.

I weld professionally and generally use machines the size of a mini-fridge. They are very fast and efficient for production, with a lot of heavy duty parts. DMS would benefit from such a machine with the abuse it is no doubt going to take.

But I have my own shop and I have a TIG Stick combination machine and a dedicated wirefeed machine. They only have 20% duty cycle, but nothing I build at home needs that much.

Everybody has an opinion. Might as well make up your own mind and go for it!

If you want to try hobby machines though you can come visit my shop or I can meet you with my equipment somewhere else. (Portable machines FTW)

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I appreciate your opinion overall, but disagree on the usage this equipment sees @ DMS (though I hope it increases). Honestly, in the last 3 months when I have been in the warehouse, no welders have been in service; no projects were even being layed out; in fact, no one was in the metal shop.
Obviously, we want this to change, and it’s cool with me if we want to plan for that in our purchases, but I still think there needs to be a plan.

Thank you for a thoughtful analysis and for sharing your personal choices. I really appreciate it from someone who “has been there” on both fronts. I hope to be able to take you up on the offer to test drive some equipment. As mentioned, I keep pushing back my welding efforts for other projects. We all makes our choices, right? At some point it’ll bubble to the top.

Along the duty cycle topic, can anyone name an instance (personal project) of the equipment currently @ the 'Space where the equipment was not heavy duty enough?

Again, I thank each of you for throwing your opinions in. I think the best way for the BOD, MetalShop Committee & Chair to make the best decisions is to hear from the populace about what we really want and will really use; I want to see this be an informed and well-planned execution and not a seat-of-the-pants tossing of the dollars.

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i can. i had to take the project to work to get a good enough strong weld. in fact thats why you haven’t seen me welding at DMS. ill weld my parts on a reliable machine that will get enough penetration. then bring the part to DMS to use with whatever project im working on. there were days where i was cutting on the plasma cam. then taking the parts to work to weld them together. i maxed out the small machine currently at DMS and it would not penetrate. would only leave a bead on the surface. which easily broke. and this is one reason im also for the miller 252. as i know it will work great, since its what i use at work. ive spot welded things as thin as 3/32 steel all the way up to welding 1/2in steel. ive tried to use the current DMS welder twice. and both times had a failing result.

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The problem is not so much the amount of use as the quality of the users. It’s easier to break hobbyist crap, and harder to fix it. (FYI - I have a hobby MIG, and it works fine, but I know how to operate it and I don’t abuse it.)

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This really is the biggest reason for the space to purchase more robust equipment, if the interest is there to warrant. Hobbyist equipment is designed and priced so that it is being used by the people who paid for it. While ‘professional’ equipment is designed to be used by people who have no financial interest in the equipment and understand that it will be considered ‘normal’ maintenance for most things.

In short equipment purchased to be use by employees and equipment being used by the typical member receive about the same amount of abuse (not nescessarily use). That alone is a good reason to spend the money on a more robust piece of equipment.

However, as with all things there are levels of ‘professional’ equipment and the space doesn’t really need equipment designed for large scale production work. Instead having needs more akin to the ‘job shop’ type of ‘professional’.

Not really talking about the welding equipment, which frankly I know nothing about, but as a general rule. I just don’t want to see us heading down the path of spending money for ‘professional’ when small business sized may be a better fit.

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I would agree with this. that machine maxed out should have done a better job. I think Ed was saying something was wrong with it. and if im not mistaken. that machine is also not owned by DMS

Both of the wirefeed machines are due for upgrade or maintenance.

If you can get a good machine out of the board do it!

Milk them for everything they’ll give ya!

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I have a Millermatic 140 AS at home, and I have had it shut down on thermal overload at what should be well under rated current settings, since I was only working on 16Ga square tubing. These smaller machines often have 20% duty cycle ratings, so you should only be welding for 2 minutes out of every 10. I think these machines are too easy to push right up to, and beyond their limits for some of the things I can see our members doing.

The industrial machine gets you more duty cycle at its rated power, and far more duty cycle for a given amperage. The wire feeds are better. The smaller machines have one grooved driven wheel, and an idler wheel. The MM252 has both wheels grooved and driven for twice the ability to push wire.

Also, if any members are doing work that is structural, or has potential impact to public safety, like trailer repairs, lifting apparatus, stairways, or similar, I would far rather they have too much welder available than too little. It is really easy to make a MIG weld that looks pretty, but has poor penetration behind it. I would not want the equipment to be a contributing factor.

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YAY! The board approved the Miller 252. I’m looking forward to getting to know it… :smiley:
Also, congrats to Trent Campbell @texastboneking and Danny Meeks @Danny as the new metal shop co-chairs. Well, not Danny. He’s not new to this position. But congrats on the fresh co-chair. :smiley:

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welding aluminum on DCEN is possible, even with argon gas

also, a TIG machine would have been the best purchase since it can switch between welding-materials more easily than MIG and doesnt creat noxious fumes like Stick and to a little lesser extent MIG too. There also less chance of having to repair the machine moreover since there are no moving parts, aside from a pedal, on a TIG.

So Im betting this machine wont see any aluminum use because of having to re-spool for aluinum wire and theres no spool gun

TIG makes the most sense

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Thank you for the input.
Certainly valid points.
The Miller 252 MIG was purchased and arrived earlier this week, though, and we’re going to make the best of that. With a reliable, solid MIG machine like it taking on primary duties, maybe we can shunt off the flux core to the Hobart and/or Lincoln, and set Danny’s machine up for TIG in a more or less permanent way. Purchasing a spool gun for it would be relatively inexpensive, if we don’t already have one. I have no idea if that is the plan, but it sounds sensible to me.

I think it’s great that we were able to move forward with the MIG purchase, even if it is not what I would have done first, because anything new and robust in the metal shop is going to be a win for us all!

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The Miller has been setup and is working extremely well. @Chris_Wischkowsky picked it up and was running solid beads in no time. we tested it on 14 gauge steel (thinnest in the spare bin) and 1/2 (largest in the bin) both welded great. should be a very easy machine to teach on.

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