MIG Only as First Acquisition for Metalshop Welder?

Metal Shop
#1

I am firstly excited to see a propsal on the agenda for new metal shop equipment. I am curious though why the proposal is for a dedicated MIG instead of one of the “all in onders” like the ThermalArc currently on loan.

One of the reasons I pay my dues is for access to welding equipment which I hope to put to the test soon, although it keeps getting pushed back. I hoped to learn enough that I could decide on importance of particular types if welding and be able to evaluate their usefulness in various scenarios, e.g. home welding of sheet steel, aluminum, or stainless.
I am not throwing this out as an objection, as I think the Hobart is the current MIG dedicated machine and had been troublesome, and am therefor excited at the prospect of good, solid, working equipment of any type. I am just curious if the choice was made to go Miller MIG @ $2500 was carefully thought out and not just “penciled in”.

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#2

Because of it’s capabilities, reliability, and ease of use. FYI - In general an all in one sucks at everything.

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#3

Look at any welding shop and you will find very few with “all in one” welders. The one proposed is very good at what it does. It would be more beneficial to have individual great welders vs a subpar “all in one” welder.

#4

That flies in the face of many opinions I see on forums frequented by non professionals such as myself. Many hobbiests value their "Ai1"s for their flexibility and all footprint. People who weld for money often lose sight of the hobbiest’s needs to use multiple methods on small spaces on the cheap, and that we are often willing to accept “some fiddling necessary”.

#5

DMS does not need to be wasting money on hobbyist equipment. And we certainly don’t need any equipment that requires fiddling with to get it to work.

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#6

Pros have different needs than hobbiests. I take it we are determined to consider ourselves pros.

That certainly seems to be Bryan’s take. …

So is the plan ultimately to acquire other dedicated machines?
Do we have a time line for each process?
Where are these plans formalized and documented?

#7

While this might actually indeed get “pushed back” at the next BoD meeting (I personally want to have some clue about how much cash we have first), I just want to ask one thing: when has it been pushed back?

AFAICT, it’s never been on a BoD meeting agenda. It’s only on this meeting because a board member thinks we need them (and I happen to agree). It’s quite possible people approached a board member or two and talked about it and didn’t get a resounding “hell yeah!” and therefore didn’t bother putting it on the agenda.

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: While I definitely want to get this “soonish”, make no mistake that I might choose to defer this due to other needs or lack of cash on hand. I told people that attended the metalshop meeting Sunday the same thing.

#8

Often the all in one are not simple to move between process configurations. Teaching everyone how to do it leaves room for a lot of people to miss learning steps and create problems. I own a Millermatic 140AS, and have run about 50 lbs of .030 wire through it. The only challenges I ever have with it are inadequate power or duty cycle for some jobs. The 252 addresses both of those issues and adds more reliability and features

#9

@Kentamanos

The way I was reading Andrew’s pushed back comment was that he has kept pushing back getting to the project. As always, I could be wrong.

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#10

I’m sure the new chair needs time to evaluate the existing equipment and develop a priority list, then work with the board on what sort of time line they may be able to support.

By the way, members teaching metalworking classes earn an honorarium not just for themselves, but for the commitee. Over time, this can improve the ability of the committee to make improvements without going to the board for every little purchase. Especially if you are generous and turn your honorarium back to the Committee.

So it really is in everyone’s best interest for plenty of classes to be available to the members.

#11

I meant it keeps getting pushed back in my personal timeline, not that DMS had pushed anything back. Again, I don’t mean this inquiry negatively, and I am excited for it to even be on the agenda. That means someone is thinking about it, and I agree wholeheartedly with the points raised on the agenda notes, that is high time the metal shop try to move forward and acquire good, working, maybe even new equipment. I just question whether “we decided” to try to move forward with purchasing high end dedicated process equipment or if the Miller in the notes was a place holder and intended to be the beginning of discussion.
I am excited to move forward no matter, but I would like to know we have a plan and timeline instead of pissing away a hefty chunk of change only to discover “someone thought you all wanted this”.

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#12

Doh! Mea culpa, @jast. I read that as the acquisition getting pushed back and missed what you were saying. I apologize for my abysmal reading comprehension skills :smile:

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#13

Given that apparently all too many of our members appear to be too timid to do something (or push for something) without someone ‘in authority’ to give them the go ahead, do you have any ideas about how we can avoid having board members (or heck committee chairs) from discouraging someone like you are indicating above.

Not saying it actually happened in this case, but your post made me think you had first hand knowledge of it happening in the past. Just thinking we would all be well served by members having open discussions about their ideas for the space.

#14

I’m still new to the talk, so I’m not sure exactly how to quote you on my phone. But this can be said about many things. The Haas is not a hobbiest machine. Yet us hobbiest have one. The spectrum lazer is not a hobbiest machine. Yet we have one. Changes in committee chair and co-chairs just happened yesterday and still waiting on board approval. So no, an exact timeline is not created for the newer machines. Welding is not just about connecting two pieces of metal. It’s about making it a strong connection. And our current machines are barely good enough for tack welding. No need to waste money on other “hobbiest” equipment that may not create a weld with enough penetration and strength.

#15

I assumed he’d heard about some “push back” and was trying to guess what that might mean. It was just a complete guess on how that might have gone down.

To be clear, if someone thinks they have a good idea on what we need etc., TRY to work with the appropriate committee if possible (odds are it’s going in someone’s space who has a say about it) and get it on an agenda. I’ve heard committees before feel like they were starved, but when I go back and look at agendas, I see it more as self imposed hunger strikes.

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#16

Okay, cool. Just worried you had heard of similar actual incidents.

#17

I don’t know either, but on my Android you have to highlight & fiddle til it gives you the grey box to quote in reply. I’mnot sure how to invoke it on demand, though, and sometimes it works better than others.

I have no beef with your assertions and merely suggest “we” “decide” by creating a plan, timeline, documentation, etc and work toward a goal. When I read the agenda it struck me as"shooting from the hip", so I ask. It still seems to me this agenda item is largely a place holder, given the responses I’ve seen here. (E.g. no timeline, no plan, no agenda).

FYI this is precisely why I wanted to attend the Metal Shop committee meeting, as mentioned here.

Sorry I missed it…

#18

That works kinda lol

Can’t seem to qoute the rest. Owell. I’ll fiddle with it.
The Miller 252 was decided apon before the committee meeting. But I can vouch for its reliability and ease of use. As well as it produces a quality weld. As we have it at our shop… I’d post a picture but apparently the note4 takes pictures at too large of a file size for this page. As it warns me I can’t post it because it’s over 3mbs

#19

Yep. At best.

As for the welds, I’ve no doubt that piece of equipment is fine, and look forward to learning to use it. I hope we get comparable TIG and stick devices as well. …

@Kentamanos & @wandrson thank you guys for being concerned and helping iron out what I meant.

#20

I’m not aware of any good TIG welders that are not also excellent stick welders, though some of them don’t handle cellulose rod coatings.