Machine Shop class ideas

Machine Shop
#21

@Adam_Oas

I don’t know if you have been around the machine shop much, but most of the tooling and machinery in the shop has been funded through @bgangwere teaching of the HAAS course ($75/seat) and the fact that his company matches his donations to the space. I believe between his work and company donations, Bryan has brought tens of thousands of dollars into the machine shop.

I am strongly opposed to charging for classes on basic use of tooling, like the lathe and the mill. CNC machines are one thing, but the basic tools are another.

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#22

Im very interested in taking your Colchester 101 class on Sunday the 28th class but I am not sure where to sign up.

Thank you

#23

@mantd6

No sign up necessary. Just look at the calendar and show up for the Sunday class. Also, I notice your using a new talk account. The Sunday class will occur in a classrom, so you don’t need to be a member; however, you will not be able to use our equipment if your not and the class really will not be useful to you if you aren’t a member.

I will ask everyone who shows up to the ‘teach the teacher’ class on Monday if they are committing to teach, and if they have attended the prior Sunday’s class (or the one I gave in December). Anyone who hasn’t will not be allowed to attend the class on Monday.

#24

I was completely new to machining and thought the steam engine build classes were the greatest. The videos are good but a hands-on group project made all the difference for me.

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#25

@Phil_Mangone

I too thought they were a great idea, and while the early ones showed a great deal of entusiam, I don’t believe the later ones had many people attending. Though I am not sure.

#26

There were enough people showing up. I just don’t have time to do them lately. Though there’s no reason I need to be the one to give them. I am not a machinist.

4 Likes
#27

I’ve taken both the courses on the Bridgeport and have finally cajoled my way into having a free Sunday AM so that I can take the HAAS class in just a couple weeks. I wanted to sign up for your December lathe class, but I had a prior engagement that was unbreakable. The largest reason that I’ve not been around more, is that I have (as stated before) no experience. Ideas for projects abound, but without the slightest clue as to how to make them happen I can’t exactly further any skills.

The $5400 part of my calculations are not funds from students, but from the $50 per class from the general fund at DMS. I understand that you’re against charging for classes, but the only other two machines that we have, don’t have any per-use fees like the lasers, and I don’t think that a small fee (I did the math wrong on the per-class fee, even at a minimum it’d be $3600, but probably much more than that) is something that should be dismissed out of hand either. The only ones that i’d think of doing it on would be hands on classes for those two specific machines.

It’s great that Brian is willing to take the time to teach the HAAS class, and I’m grateful that he’s been able to donate so much stuff, but in the end, it’s the rest of us members that have to step up if we want to grow the space. I’ll be at both Sunday (note that the HAAS class goes until 1:00 officially) and Monday classes.

#28

My opinion, since this is something I have been thinking on, and not for machine shop specifically, but for the space as a whole. I’m pretty burnt out on sitting through the mundane “blah blah blah” by looky-lous to rehash the same old safety stuff each time, and I think an online “certification” program could help substantially.

I would like to see the “basic safety” classes video-fied. Things like “don’t show up to learn to weld in flip-flops”; “how to clean the dust collector in woodshop”; “don’t stick your fingers in the saw blade (ANY saw blade!)” type stuff. Then use online quizzes to earn “safety certifications”. Require these to attend the hands-on classes for each piece of equipment. The hands-on should be no BS, get 'er done classes.

As for “training required”; it’s such a shame to see the culture of “self-teach” being blown away. It’s a crime against the maker spirit to not allow people to teach themselves. Another “some idiot spoils it for the rest of us” scenario, apparently. :cry:

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#29

I’d rather see “training required if you aren’t already familiar with the equipment”.

I’m going to pick on the Metal Shop, as an example, since I’m on the committee and therefore it is partly my fault:

I’ve taken two semester-long welding classes at CCCD (or whatever they call themselves now), own a TIG machine, and have completed about a half-dozen projects without electrocution, setting myself or others on fire, or damaging the machine.

However, since I haven’t taken the TIG training class (which has not been offered in recent memory), I can’t go in and fire up the Miller machine. How am I supposed to get trained?

We all sign waivers saying that we are responsible for our own safety. For the low-cost-incident machines, I think that suffices, while the high-dollar machines should require training (as they currently do). Having RFID lock-outs on the “Red” ones will identify those who break the machines and don’t report it. These are the people who likely need training.

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#30

The problem w/ a fee is that you can damage the equipment, or injure yourself or others, by rushing. That is not true of the laser cutter. And as I understand it, there are really only a few people who actually pay the laser fee. In any case; I’m against creating an incentive to rush or take shortcuts.

Also: A new medium sized lathe is in the order of $15K-$20K. It would take a long time to save up the money to buy one.

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#31

So, if I may, how would YOU implement “test out”?
I’ve got next-to-nothing on that very important, in my opinion, front.

#32

Without proof, most people will claim some sort of relevant (at least in their head) experience. I’ve seen this in Machineshop and Woodshop.

I get it, but how do you make a rule without some sort of proof system? In Woodshop, there are guys with a crap load of experience who go ahead and take the basics just to set a good example if nothing else.

As someone who would probably be named in the case of a lawsuit, I probably approach it from a different angle and I am more paranoid. I’m willing to admit that :slightly_smiling:

3 Likes
#33

@Kentamanos

I think the most serious issue that @zmetzing raised was that training for the welders is required, but that classes are infrequent.

I know I have been trying to get into one of those infrequent classes for the best part of a year and haven’t managed it so far. I think this represents a major problem with the idea of requiring training.

Woodshop, which seems to have a large pool of volunteers, offers lots of classes, so requiring training there isn’t really a burden, but other areas it certainly is.

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#34

I’m not talking about a usage fee for exactly the reason you mention, but a one-time class fee ($20 or whatever), same as the Lift Class in Auto that provides funds for maintenance and purchasing new tooling. I’m not dead set on the idea, just was a thought. Either way, the fact remains that the board is more inclined to agree to purchases of 1) Gear that is used by more than a few select people 2) Gear that is partially paid for by the committee. Teaching classes are a double edged sword (even if you don’t charge a fee, the committee still gets $50) against both points.

#35

Well one possibility would be that you can get checked out by anyone already certified by having them watch you use the machine and then add your name to the approved list.

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#36

There are a couple of problems with the argument that training reduces our (your) liability.

  • Our trainers qualifications are subject to criticism by injured party.

  • As a co-operative it can be argued that our members are largely responsible for their own safety.

  • By requiring training before using our tools, we effectively assume additional liability by acting more like a commercial firm like techshop. In other words our training is assumed to be sufficient or any accidents may be the fault of poor training.

  • With multiple, non-certified, trainers we will have inconsistent training.

  • And with required training, and to a lesser extent any training on a tool, anyone providing that training will be subject to personal liability. Our teachers are not employees, so any insurance coverage the space has will not likely cover the instructor.

2 Likes
#37

OK.
but no one is doing that.
Anywhere.
And to implement this, we’re now asking for volunteers to, with no compensation other than feeling good about it, to take the time to test out, certify, log, etc. people to a non-existent “approved list”.

This would be my best suggestion so far:
Treat “test out” like a rolling enrollment class. Charge for eventbrite ticket (or not) and, when a volunteer “tests out”, say, 5 people, it’s treated as if a “class” were made, honorariums paid out, etc. The “instructor” will spend no less time testing out 5 people than they would teaching the same. I think similar credence should be lent to “online classes”, such as the “video/quiz” I suggested before, with, say, 10 certifications getting the creator(s) a class honorarium.

I’m glad to see Adam got the ball rolling on this. I hope something drops out of it. I hope I am able to help.

#38

We already exist on the unpaid labor of tons of volunteers. I don’t think this would be any different.

#39

I would say one exception to welding would be you can provide a valid AWS welding certification. And then only if it covers the types of welding you do: Stick, MIG, TIG, etc. I’m not aware of any other equivalent certification for other machine operation.

#40

I agree, and that’s why we’re in this pickle.
I still think “teach yourself - ask for help” is the best policy, and I’d like to reward those who teach straggling “one - offs” or “test outs” in a similar fashion to those who teach formal classes. More of an accumulated class credit system.

Ok. I’ll bow out of this, now. I’ve said my piece. I’ll grab some popcorn and watch for a place where I think I can make a difference. My jabbering on about it here is not going to be that. :slightly_smiling:

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