Let's play a Scholarly Game

Off Topic
#17

Bite within the context of a flavor or drink according to the Oxford dictionary is defined as:
image

The chemical composition of Bourbon is highly variable but always includes both Ethanol and Tannin.


Tannin is described as having a bitter taste and smell.

Ethanol is also a mild irritant, both when in direct contact with your mouth and as an inhaled vapor.
http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/chemical_approval/msds/78_msds.pdf

This combination of Tannin and Ethanol can reasonably be described as “sharp” and “pungent”
image


image

1 Like
#18

I like it!

Round 4: The Quickening

Statement: “Red is not Orange” (note, there is not a specific shade mentioned here, so can’t use hex values or specific wavelengths since the boundary is explicitly not clear)

#19

Red is orange.

You’re asking someone to prove a definition.

#20

There is no combination of ‘Orange’ that is ‘Red’

https://word.tips/words-for/Orange/?dictionary=wwf

#21

1 - Fact: What the human eye perceives as color(s) are actually varying wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation:

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/home/F_What_is_Color.html

2 - Fact: in the visible light spectrum, the colors we call red correspond to a wavelength of ~(682 +/- 56) nanometers, and the colors we call orange correspond to a wavelength of ~(607 +/- 17) nanometers:

3 - Conclusion: ~(682 +/- 56) != ~(607 +/- 17), and therefore red != orange.

Q.E.D.

#22

But, as the level of light decreases, all colors are perceived by the human eye as shades of gray. Such as, in the evening hours as the sun goes down the colors disappear and the human eye just sees the shades of gray. The colors drop out in sequence, reds first and green is the last color to change to gray.

1 Like
What is Color (stooopid char requirement)
#23

Yeah, you just grabbed definitions that created mutually exclusive categories. I’m not sure that that’s in the spirit of the game.

The Japanese color “ao” is actually both green and blue. See? It’s a definitional thing.

Red and orange are just perceptions in the human brain that differ because of the way the cones and rods in our eye behave and because of how our brains are wired. One could have defined “red” to include all the range of the electromagnetic spectrum that you reference. Ultimately, you’re using a dictionary, not logic, to prove your point.

#24

You are not making sense…

1 - A color IS a thing, because a wavelength IS a thing. Just because we call it an arbitrary name, like “red”, so we can talk about it sensibly doesn’t make it not a thing distinct from other things.

2 - “The Japanese color “ao” is actually both green and blue.” Huh? I feel like you just tried to argue that 3 is both 1 and 2 because they were added together. The color Ao is a distinct color from blue or green because it does not have the same wavelength as blue or green (or, probably more correctly, is a superposition of wavelengths).

3 - Additionally, the fact that some color is a mixture of two or more colors doesn’t make the original colors not distinct, and therefore unequal things, i.e. Ao != Green != Blue.

#25

Is a red ball still red in the dark? Or can red only describe an electromagnetic wave, and not objects themselves?

It’s like asking what’s the temperature of a single atom in isolation. Temperature describes a complex phenomenon/interaction. Likewise, one could legitimately define color as a perception in the human brain, and not a measurement of electromagnetic frequency. Color, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
deuteranopia-color-spectrum
https://www.color-blindness.com/deuteranopia-red-green-color-blindness/

And here’s more info on the green/blue point presented below. It’s definitional, and the Japanese color ao isn’t a single electromagnetic frequency, or a specific mixture of ones, but it is itself a broad range of frequencies.

I would add that my sister, who has orange-ish hair, is called a redhead. And, that red existed before we knew what electromagnetic spectrum, frequency, and wavelength were.

And don’t the rules of this challenge prevent you from defaulting to a spectrum argument?

1 Like
#26

Statement: “Red is not Orange”

Instead of proving that Red is not Orange. I’m going for proving that there is no way to tell from the information given. The name-color relationship depends on the context, cognition and/or perception of the writer. Since the above phrase has no relevant context to go along with it, I’m going to claim indeterminate.

“Ordinary colour talk is used in a variety of ways – for flat coloured surfaces, surfaces of natural objects, patches of paintings, transparent objects, shining objects, the sky, flames, illumination, vapours, volumes, films and so on, all of which interact with overall situation, illumination, edges, textures, patternings and distances, making the concept of sameness of colour inherently indeterminate”

Saunders, B. (1995). “Disinterring Basic Color Terms: a study in the mystique of cognitivism”. History of the Human Sciences. 8 (7): 19–38. doi:10.1177/095269519500800402

“In the mid-nineteenth century, various scholars, notably William Gladstone (1858) and Lazarus Geiger (1880), noted that the speakers of ancient written languages did not name colors as precisely and consistently – as they saw it – as the speakers of modern European languages. They proposed a universal evolutionary sequence in which color vocabulary evolves in tandem with an assumed biological evolution of the color sense”

Regier, T., Kay, P., Gilbert, L., Ivry, B. (2007). Language and thought: Which side are you on anyway?. Retrieved April 8, 2009, from http://lclab.berkeley.edu/papers/lehigh.pdf

“There are universal constraints on color naming, but at the same time, differences in color naming across languages cause differences in color cognition and/or perception.”

Kay, P., & Regier, T. (2006). Language, thought and color: recent developments. Trends in cognitive sciences, 10(2), 51-54

1 Like
#27

Red is an American Christian rock band from Nashville, Tennessee, formed in 2002.
Orange is an American pop punk band from Los Angeles, California, formed in 2002.
Both are still performing and do not share members or music genre, hence they are not the same.


7 Likes
#28

I really like your answer @bertberaht … love outside the box thinking but it might be too far outside the box and Jim does imply color, ie hex code, wavelength… but I’d give it to you …

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#29

Draco, I see this as mental sleight of hand. He references why certain answers involving colors are out of bounds. He does not say it IS color. With Jim being an investigator in real life, knowing both how to look for and set up such misleads would come naturally to him. On a very basic level it compares to the old test trick were the first instruction is to read everything before answering and the final statement is to not answer before turning in the test. Jim planted specifics about color and as expected folks attacked those specifics without regard for the double meaning of NOT ABOUT COLOR. Anyway, my take on the exercise.

#30

Red is not orange:
The Oxford Learners Dictionary defines orange as “a bright colour between red and yellow.”

Since yellow, being “between” red and another color, must be distinct from red, and it is therefore NOT red, QED.

image

Source: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/orange_1

#31

The goal of this game is to use citations, not logic. I would argue that a dictionary definition from an authoritative dictionary source is fine as a citation, specifically the 2.b definition, below:

image
image.png794×701 68.4 KB

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citation

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#32

Just to be pedantic … :stuck_out_tongue:

Dictionaries count …
https://academicanswers.waldenu.edu/faq/73139

#33

Suppose I just cited the definition of “tree” and “person” and said, “See, they’re different.” Would that have sufficed for a win?

#34

If the definition of tree or person stated that fact.

The Oxford definition of “orange” specifically states that it is distinct from red (specifically that it is between red and yellow): neither person nor tree do so.

#35

Alright,

so here’s the deal: I’m loving every minute of this. The varied interpretations, the rules lawyering, the arguments I must be making a trick question.

So @David_A_Tucker The definition of a human being is a member of homo (or specifically homo sapiens or homo erectus and maybe a couple others depending on which definition), and thus the taxonomy argument made above holds.

@bertberaht nice thinking as I’ve done that type of trickery, but wasn’t the case there. I just didn’t want someone to pull up an art program and select one that is orange and one that is red and say “the values are different” and as for wavelength it’s because the boundary is not clearly defined as when red starts to become orange.

But that’s also what makes discussions like this so juicy; this was an explicitly vague statement. Part of the game is playing on how the english language is unclear in common statements.

I’m gonna take a break from writing the next round; if someone wants to they can take it over but man this last round went all over the board.

As for a winner, I can’t name one here. This was an explicitly vague statement and I got a wide variety of answers. I’ll call this one a mulligan on my part.

#36

So what do we do if we agree with all of the listed statements? Provide cites?