Kiln procedures

Beware the Law of Unintended Consequences. We have too much demand for project storage as it is. I like pottery staying in Fired Arts as it currently stands.

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I do not remember that or laser maintenance either in the two years I have been a member.

I agree, lets move onto something else.

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Available space is much more the problem for this alleged solution than money. Given some of the things the board has bought recently, they’d probably be happy to buy some kilns. With the upcoming Christmas season, I wouldn’t lower our normal capacity by selling off either of the kilns we’ve got, and that pretty much means there’s no room for new kilns.

I’m not sure on the little kilns, but the larger ones we’ve got want 18" of free space when they’re running. I was considering making anybody (not random gum-flappers) seriously interested make a solid metal shelf that the little kilns could sit on. Hmmm. I should check the usage on the Kress before even mouthing about that. We’ve got 2 dedicated plugs back there. If the little kilns need the same service, then we could not be running multiple kilns at the same time.

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Due to the rules that our esteemed board members have passed even the temporary storage of greenware in Fired Arts is actually a violation of our rules. Granted those same board members have historically chosen to ignore their own rules regularly. However, if we simply stopped using all of that shelf space for storage of personal projects, we would have enough room for additional kilns. And if additional electrical drops were needed that is certainly possible as well.

https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies#Storage

Storage in Committee Areas

  1. Anything that is a personal item in a committee area must have gone through the Loaning of Tools & Equipment to the Makerspace

We also have rule number 7, which was specifically passed to address the kilns in FA where I believe one of the kilns was the personal property of JohnK. I don’t know if that situation was ever corrected, but the discussion at the time was to open up the use of kilns to more then the two people who had access at the time. Granted they added Beth, but that hardly satisfies the ruling, unless DMS not owns both kilns.

  1. If training is required and not set up at least once a month, the personal item on loan is subject to removal within 30 days.

This last concept is the heart of @zmetzing proposal. We shouldn’t have tools if we don’t have a means for members to learn to use them.

You already know that we are short on electrical power and are very oversubscribed. Is this where you will push ridiculous boundaries and interpretation of the rules next?

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Reading thorough a bit. Now I can accept that I may not know all the facts about his issue, but It seems that there is some kind of a fiefdom going on in Fired Arts. Only our little group can have access to the kilns. Why can’t others be trained to operate the kilns? How hard can it be? Does it take specialized skills to operate and only a few “elites” are capable?

What am I missing here?

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Suppose we had a laser cutter which took a day to warm up before it can begin cutting and another day to cool off before you can remove your work pieces. And while it is going through this cycle, you cannot open it up to add or remove anything.

We cannot let everyone do individual projects on such a machine because of the cycle time but prefer to save up jobs until the cutting bed is full before running it.

The operator will have to be skilled so that he does not mess up anyone’s project.

Does this capture the essence of it?

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Because it takes days for a kiln firing and operating the kiln means handling other people’s things. The proposed solution (which was already a work in progress) is to get a small kiln operational that people can be trained on and use for their personal projects. Someone is going to look at the small kiln on Saturday and try to fix it. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

ETA that the ceramics tools that most people use (wheels and slab roller) do not require training to use (as far as I know) but fired arts has had a lot of classes on those tools. Really, a lot of people who are commenting should take a fired arts class and read the fired arts section on Talk. Even better make a few things in fired arts.

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Owen -

Fired Arts is a VERY productive corner of DMS.

I think there are 4 things going on.

  1. The standard kiln loads need an experienced hand. Otherwise, there is a strongly likelihood lots of work from lots of people gets damaged or destroyed. Not excellent.

  2. I actually think FA is short 1 functioning kiln which could be designated for training people interested in learning to fire a kiln on their own. I do not think FA has been do kiln education because for most people working in FA, what has been happening…works. Meanwhile, teaching kiln firing techniques on someone else’s work is not excellent.

  3. I think people have been pretty nasty, hiding behind their keyboards, at home. I have not seen this kind of nasty armchair quarterbacking into another Committee business since I became a member, 4.5 years ago.

  4. For unknown reasons, this week, lots of opinions have been thrown at Fired Arts. I think if every Committee had the same level of scrutiny, there would be gaps. Forgive the pun, why has Fired Arts been taking the heat? Not excellent.

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Ok so it’s a cycle issue then. It takes 3 days. So,there are 2 firings a week and every firing is full?

Still doesn’t address why others aren’t trained to do the firings. I suppose there is an art to it that requires years of experience?

In other words, big demand for firings and not enough time for individuals to fire their own creations? Most creators only trust a few folks to set up and create the cycle?

Sounds like good problem to have. Probably time for more kilns perhaps.

Thanks.

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So expecting the rules that were passed for precisely this issue to be enforced is ridiculous? We will just have to agree to disagree.

I’m suspecting boredom…

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Personally, I find this the most troublesome of the posts in this thread. We want makers certainly, but do we want makers who join solely to have someone else fire their ceramics because we are cheaper then other options?

The fact of the matter is that kilns are not that expensive (compared to the other tools our makers own and use), with small personal sized ones ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand. Perhaps more of our makers (and the local pottery community) might invest if they could first learn how to use them.

From the posts on this thread it appears that the firing process is as much a part of the creation of the pottery as the actual throwing. How can it be ‘your’ pottery if you don’t know how to complete it? Collective firings are certainly more economical, but does one person actually Personally, I find this the most troublesome of the posts in this thread. We want makers certainly, but do we want makers need to be the person who loads and fires, or do you just need a ‘qualified’ person to supervise and ensure everything is done correctly.

This is basically equivalent to the wood shop committee saying you can’t directly use the power tools since you may hurt yourself or break them. So you must mark up your material and twice a week one of our knowledgeable folks will plane or cut or drill your material as needed… That kind of approach wouldn’t fly with any other committee, so why is it acceptable for fired arts?

The only nastiness I have seen in this thread has been from a few of the fired arts folks. I haven’t seen a single response that would prevent Fired Arts from offering members the ability to learn to fire pottery and experiment with different clays that couldn’t be overcome if there was any desire.

Anyway, I am done with this thread, as I mentioned above this is one of the things I joined for, and had a specific project I wanted to do. I put a lot of time, at home, because I was told they didn’t want my clay to contaminate anything, to learn to make that hand coiled pot. When I was expecting to move, I simply threw it out. From the responses, it seems that FA really hasn’t changed its basic approach since I joined.

I wasn’t bored until I read this thre…zzzzzzzzzz

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But it wasn’t because Marshall was bored, just a slight episode of narcolepsy :wink:

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The same way a major airline prefers to hire pilots from the military instead of having newly minted pilots flying their jets. You want someone with expertise and experience when others are reliant and at risk.

The solution is to fix that one kiln and use it for training and experimentation. The same way that 3D Fab has one printer set aside for people who may want to use PLA or Ninjaflex while the PolyPrinters are ABS only.

I see your points, but it seems to me that Fired Arts is run like a ceramics business. You throw your projects and then dry and glaze and then once there is enough to fill a kiln, then firing is done.

Whereas, DMS is really a different model. This is a teaching environment for DIYers to learn the complete process.

So it seems that this thread helped highlight the challenges and opportunities for Fired Arts to expand into a bigger tent.

A kiln for teaching and individual use sounds like a good move.

(One point in this thread, I did read that is a bit concerning though, is where people are being recruited to simply fire their pieces because it’s cheaper. That is more of a service and not really part of DMS’ mission of educational purposes.)

Why is this concerning?

The vast, vast majority of our members join to use our tools. I have great woodworking tools at my house, but don’t have the big powermatic jointer or planer. Should I be discouraged from joining the space because I can do some of my work at home and some of it at the space?

If you were to survey the membership and ask for the primary reason for joining, you’re going to get 5 to 1 in favor of “to use tools I don’t own myself.”

Why are our kilns any different?

Moreover, why are people who aren’t active in a committee so concerned with how that committee conducts their business?

I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about fired arts, or that they can’t get done what they want to get done there. Beth runs her committee with minimal fuss and request for funds, and her members are happy. Her students are happy. Why does the membership feel like they have the right to pile on and share their (dramatically uneducated) opinions on how her committee operates?

I don’t really care for making pottery, but I DO like the chemistry of glazing and the possibilities there. My brother is the artist. I know all too well the difficulty involved in firing pottery, and have a kiln in my shop. I think Beth does a great job, and I would imagine that if someone were to come along and ask her to teach them how to use the kilns, she’d be more than willing to teach them. Goodness knows she goes out of her way to teach everything else in the committee.

She’s doing great. She should be commended, not criticized.

So, let me be the first. Beth, you’re doing great work. You’re a credit to the space. Keep it up.

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