Kiln procedures

Ceramics
#23

I think that operating the kiln is closer to “adjusting” the 3D printers than using the 3D printers. The adjustment or repair of the 3D printers aren’t allowed to the general membership. I’m sure if someone wanted to put the time and effort necessary to learn the maintenance and repair of the 3D printers they would be welcomed after they proved they were willing to complete the training.

I’m sure @dryad2b and the other current operators of the kiln would be happy to teach someone who was “serious” about operating the kiln to get them up to speed on proper care and operation of the kiln. People that just want it on their resume need not apply.

I have been through many training classes at DMS and most of them didn’t reveal many unknowns to me, Most of them I would have taken even if they weren’t required but I seriously question the importance placed on most of the mandatory classes.

I don’t think that the management of DMS appreciate the damage caused by the restrictive requirements of training for most of our tools. With 1600 members 100 members more or less doesn’t matter? Right?

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#24

Why aren’t we training maintenance on the lasers, CNC router table, plasma cutter, metal lathe and HAAS Mill? Not many people have THAT training either.

It is not that I object to training people to fire kilns, I object to them “learning how” on other people’s work. It is a unique issue with DMS. No other area shares a resource the same way.

Doing it wrong has consequences.

4 Likes
#25

Not true. I showed my last controls class how to use the spectrometer to measure the oil/water mix. I show the tool jog program that rotates the tools so they don’t stick. I showed using the water hose connection from the pump to wash out the walls of the haas. Maintenance proceedures for bi-weekly, monthly, and yearly are clearly listed on the WIKI.

None the less, I see the point you were trying to make. this attack on the kiln is getting out of hand.

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#26

I suspect that there isn’t more maintenance training because no one is willing to put the time and effort into it to learn to do it properly. After someone learns it then they are expected to keep the equipment up and running.

This is not a criticism of the members. It takes a special attitude and just the right circumstances for someone to take this GIANT commitment. We must choose our battles wisely and make our own choices.

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#27

Charge for things. We should be charging for kiln time, and we should be charging for learning to use kilns. In both cases the electricity consumption is substantial. According to the data @dryad2b linked to for kilns, our large kilns consume three times the power in 24 hours that I estimated above, or over 150 kWh in a single day. According to this site, https://data.austintexas.gov/Utility/Residential-Average-Monthly-kWh-and-Bills/d9pb-3vh7 That is 25% of what an average household in the winter months consumes in an entire month… and over 12% of what they consume in the month of August. That is a LOT of electricity.

But more to the point, these two threads have highlighted several things. One, people with the ‘skills’ to manage a kiln are quite small in number. And two, at least a few members have expressed interest. Gimli compares it to the maintenance of the 3D printers, yet we have procedures to add members trained to maintain those. All I am suggesting is that Fired Arts work on ways to train members who want to learn how to manage the kilns, using small kilns to provide an training base. And also using those small kilns to provide a means for members (even if only 5%) to use other then standard clays and processes.

If cost is an issue for new capitol products (small kilns), go to the board and ask for it. They seem more then willing to expend cash on new teaching resources.

#28

At least from my perspective, there is no attack on the kiln or the committee. I am just suggesting that the resource be expanded beyond our current use. I have yet to see a good reason provided not to.

#29

People who want it have it, and I have frequently seen people who ASK on this forum get offered one on one training. Indeed I have seen woodshop beg for people to learn to help maintain the equipment. I have seen formal training classes for the laser maintenance as well.

#30

Actually, it’s much more about space. FA is already pretty cramped. I’ve got 2 medium kilns, a glass kiln and the little Kress. And while we just eased the foundry off to Blacksmithing, that just opened up access to the shelf that’s already in demand for the long wait for items to dry completely.

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#31

In the commercial shops I have done pottery with, they required us to take our pieces home to let dry and bring them back for firing. Why doesn’t FA do something like this. Space is quite precious at DMS and it seems a waste to be using it simply to dry peoples projects.

1 Like
#32

There are some things that I think need to be clarified, because they haven’t been spelled out in this thread, so I don’t know how many people know them.

DMS Fired Arts has 4 kilns today:

  1. The large Paragon kiln that is used somewhat frequently to do bisque and cone 6 glaze firings. This kiln is capable of firing to cone 10.

  2. The smaller Paragon kiln that sits on the floor. This kiln has been broken since at least April when I went on my first tour of DMS. I’ve been told on multiple occasions that we have the money to fix it, and the repair is only a phone call away. It’s August now. I believe this kiln can also Fire to cone 10. I’ll come back to why I think getting this kiln fixed is important.

  3. The quite small Paragon kiln that is on a table back in the kiln area. This is a glass-only kiln. I don’t think anyone has used it in some time. I would love it if someone did some hot glass classes making use of and teaching the use of this kiln.

  4. The small Cress kiln on the floor. No one has used this kiln in some time. Cress doesn’t list the model number on their website (I went looking for a manual a while back). When I asked how it worked, I was initially told that no one knew and later told that it makes use of witness cones. This kiln lacks a digital controller, which doesn’t make it junk by any stretch, but it does somewhat restrict what the kiln can be used for.

So, out of the four kilns in Fired Arts, we use the one big one for community firings, one has been broken for an unknown amount of time (but at least 4 months), one is for glass (which sadly no one has been doing lately), and one is undocumented and no one is making use of it because we don’t have the necessary training.

I would like to assert in no uncertain terms that the kiln firing is unquestionably an integral part of the creative process in ceramics. Honestly, it troubles me to hear the Fired Arts chair state that it’s not. Many different clay bodies vitrify at different temperatures. Some really interesting clays fire best at oddball cones like 8 or 03. Many different glazes require different firings. Some prefer a slow heating. Some prefer a slower cooling. Some glazes are vibrant at cone 5 and start to fade out at cone 6. Some don’t mature until cone 9. And, of course, most good porcelains fire to cone 10 (though there are exceptions).

Now, on kiln size. Having only small kilns is really probably wasteful. Having one really good small kiln is probably a great idea. Paragon makes the Janus 24, which has a 24"x22.5"x15" interior space. It fires to cone 10, does ceramic or glass, and comes with a digital controller. Yeah, it’s a little pricey, but it’s cheaper than a lot of tools at DMS. Anyone that wants to do a one-off unique firing could be accommodated by that device. And we could easily train people on how to use it.

All of this being said, I was told before I joined that I could do pretty much whatever firing I wanted as long as I could fill the kiln. Right now, with only our one largest kiln operational and available, that makes for a pretty significant hurdle. This is why I would very much like to see the smaller Paragon kiln fixed, and in a perfect world, I’d like to see DMS acquire a small, but very nice and modern (cone 10, digital controller) ceramics kiln.

Regardless, it makes absolutely zero sense for anyone to push back on kiln training. Any member should have the opportunity to be able to make use of any tool. Kilns are definitely different and special. A firing lasts a long time. There are scheduling issues. Someone irresponsible could really mess up a kiln. These are all, every last one, problems that can be solved. Are they daunting problems? Some of them are, sure. But just because something is challenging is no reason to avoid making an effort.

4 Likes
#33

We pay for warranty and onsite service on the 3d printers. I just happen to be a member as well. When im doing maintenance on the 3d printers I’m clocked in. So this example is false.

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#34

Machine Shop has a Haas Team and Lathe Team. They are responsible for maintaining them, anyone that wants to join that team will learn the maintenance techniques - we want people to take part.

I don’t know about the CNC router on where they define operator maintenance vs repairs start. But there is also a difference between operating vs repairing it. Operator routine maintenance is part of the kiln process, some of the items have been mentioned above. My involvement with kilns/furnaces for the investment cast molds has been at industrial levels involving hundreds to over a thousand casts on a run. Not the same as our type of kilns but the principles are the same. Then later the actual vacuum pour to create the castings.

I think as many people have suggested previously, use the smaller kilns for training. You use your own work or willing “risk takers” work for the firings. This addresses your concern of damaging other members work in the large kilns and meeting training additional skills. There are people I suspect would be willing to buy a kiln of their own after learning how to use one, and learning is what DMS is very much about. What is your objection to someone risking their own work to learn a skill?

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#35

I have seen training offered on the maintenance of the 3D printers in the past

1 Like
#36

Last I checked we pay around $0.08 / kWH. For even numbers’ sake, let’s say it’s $0.10 / kWH. Let’s also round up to 3kW for each kiln.

24hr * 3kw = 72kW * $0.10 = $7.20 per firing. Assuming they run twice weekly = 8 runs a month = $57.60 per month. Not free, but a very small chunk of our ~$4000 per month electrical bill.

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#37

Maybe training for how to maintain your personal printer? I’ve never heard them allow anybody but the chair and polyprinter to do work more complex than replacing the tape on the bed, and fighting those that think they are allowed to set Z height.

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#39

Suspect it’s a surprising quantity of kWH during air conditioning season. However, I recall that our seasonal fluctuation is not so great as one might expect.

#40

I use the small kiln for glass fusing. I asked how and was taught by one of the fired arts committee members. The main difference is that you can really only put one piece or two small pieces in it. So there is no issue of damaging others work. I know Beth loads the kiln all the time and reports the days she fires and removes. I’m sure she could teach how it’s done as well but she is in charge of the fired arts committee so it’s up to her and the committee as we are structured at DMS. If the committee wants to change the way things are done then they have that ability come October.

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#41

The kilns are used almost all the time, there is at least 2 firings most weeks

The thing with them is that it is rare that only one persons work
is being fired, multiple folks work is fired

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#42

The issue is not is the kiln used, who and how often are people trained to use this tool? If training is required to use the kiln, then it would not be exempt from the requirement. Train for it, open it for use by anyone, or get rid it. There is no “Kiln” exemption.

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#43

Yep and I believe the kilns had to be locked due to people firing things in them that were against the rules? And then there are the people who cannot even operate a broom who demand to be able to operate the kilns for their production runs because they waited until December 1 to start on ceramics for Christmas sales…

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