Irresponsibility - so frustrating

[davdstanton]

Let me begin by saying that DMS is the best place to be on the planet. It has every tool know to mankind and probably a few that aren’t known. But it is not the tools that make up a great environment but its the people. It is extremely frustrating to come along behind someone who does not consider who is going to use the equipment after they finished.

I went to the makers space on Sunday to work on my project. The first thing I saw was this little plug laying on the cart. This is about the third time I saw this little plug. It is extremely important when using the vice.

So I took my time to install it before I used the Bridgeport. If you do not use this plug you can not properly align the vice.

So I took my time out of my day to remove the vice and install this little important part. Anyone can plainly see that there is a missing plug. Using both plugs will align this vice very accurately and when anyone decides to use the Bridgeport they will assume that it has been aligned. Who ever left this out ( well I will bite my tongue)

Then I need to use the lathe. All I needed to do was trim a part that will take less than 10 minutes but when I was going to use it I saw the jaws completely fully extended. First of all it is going to take a few minutes to crank them back down. They should have been cranked down as they were found. But in any case I rotated the chuck to insert the key and one of them fell out.

I put it back in and retracted the jaws all the way down only to discover that they were not in the correct position.

Why should I have to spend my time to fix this? This is very upsetting that the guy who was so F (I will bite my tongue)

So I will skip that process and come back another day. I went to set up the rotary table and found this…

We are all grown men that love these tools and love DMS but this is total irresponsibility of the person using the machine and not caring about the next person who is going to use it. Just remember when you approach the machine how nice it is to walk up to a clean machine and start working. Well that was not what happened to me, every place was out of sorts. (yep I will bite my tongue again)

Tim bought a bran new set of files only a few months ago, Where the H (ok ok ) its getting harder and harder not to say what is on my mine. Several files are missing including the very one that I needed. This is a prime example of someone using a file (possibly from another area) and then not caring about anyone else that might need it later, then not taking the time to return it. They have no sense of responsibility for others.

There use to be vice grip in the tool box but not no more.

Let me say in closing that each person has a responsibility to keep this place (not just the machine shop but every department) clean and organized. DMS is a wonderful place to be and build your dreams but when there are people who do not care about the next person that is going to use it after them. That is called selfishness and irresponsibility.

So I just thought that you (who ever left this mess and did not return tools) might like to know how the next person in line felt about you not taking responsibility to return tools or clean up after yourself.

[coloneldan]

Recently, people have begun to use the blacksmithing, KMG grinder, which is specifically made for grinding/sharpening steel (KMG stands for Knife Making Grinder), and sanding wood. This is a complete misuse of the equipment and even when reminded not to do so it is still misused. Worse the debris is left for someone else to clean up.

It seems that some people are just disrespectful of the equipment and the people who maintain it. I’m sorry you had to deal with this in the machine shop.

[malcolmputer]

This is obviously a larger issue than the Machine Shop or any other area. I’m sorry for the members that suck, it’s always the few that make things worse for the group.

Whenever posts come up like this (or I end up cleaning up someone else’s mess) I do wonder why DMS chooses to keep these people as members. From my experience teaching and helping chairs around DMS there’s always that “problem member” that the chairs know is in the top 5 suspects for breaking stuff. Sometimes we see those members turn around into better members but most of the time we keep them around multiple years sowing discord and breaking stuff until they do something monumentally stupid and get banned. Maybe we should fast track that? Give the chairs (collectively not each) 1 permanent ban or maybe even yearly? they (the chairs) get to vote on quarterly? I know that a chair can remove someone from the area for 30 days, but I can think of a couple members who had multiple 30 day bans to some areas and it still took a year or two for the board to let them really mess up before they were gone.

I would say this should be a board issue, but I think it’s better that a group of chairs do it because they are much closer to the problem. The board should be worrying about bigger things than one or two miscreants not understanding community workshop etiquette.

[ozindfw]

I’m regularly spending a half hour cleaning and picking up before I can start doing what I came to do. I’ve fallen back to only cleaning up and picking up where I need to work. It seems to be getting worse

I’m not quite here yet, but I’m getting to the point I think baseball rules should apply. Three strikes and you’re banned for a period. Harsh, even harder to enforce, and time consuming for the committee chairs to go through the video and reliably ID the perps.

[TBJK]

What time did you notice the sign key out of the vise? I have a feeling I may know who done it. If it is the person I think it is, they are going to get a vacation from said equipment.

[artg_dms]

Interlock log in on both machines should narrow down the time and the guilty.

[rlisbona]

I rarely take the time to check the vise squareness on the mills, I always check miter gauge and fence on tablesaws. Hadn’t realized how often I have been lucky on the mills. I just finished some 24" long leveling feet for the wide belt sander, going to have to recheck those to see if mounting holes are where I planned to put them.

[malcolmputer]

@malcolmputer

From my experience teaching and helping chairs around DMS there’s always that “problem member” that the chairs know is in the top 5 suspects for breaking stuff.

@TBJK

I have a feeling I may know who done it. If it is the person I think it is,

See what I mean? If that person doesn’t just hate Tim and loves making Tim’s life worse, and happens to have repeat similar behavior in other committee’s maybe we should give them the boot. Volunteer’s only have so much time and I’d rather have Tim working on fixing a HAAS than looking through camera footage over and over for the same person.

What ever happened to Beer and Bitch? Besides the Beer being outlawed of course. I think that was the meeting that really turned all the chairs onto the idea that it was the same folks doing the messing up of multiple areas at the time. Seems like it’d be a good meeting to vote some people off the island at the same time.

[SWA]

Maybe there should be an off-site meetup every so often, one that has beer:)

[ozindfw]

@SWA

one that has beer:

or other “adult beverages”

[Grumpy1056]

Yup… this is the type of behavior that drove me out of the smaller MakerSpace in Richardson. Got tired of cleaning up after others in the woodshop!!!

[eolszewski]

Like Topo Chico?

[ESmith]

@eolszewski

Like Topo Chico?

While not prohibited by statute, availability at such establishments is by no means guaranteed.

[simurghi]

I think a more productive idea would be to get the chairs together just in general to sync up with other chairs. Hard to enforce as everyone is a volunteer and everyone has different schedules, but it’d be a great idea to break down silos.

[malcolmputer]

@simurghi

more productive idea

That’s step one, get the chairs together. The productive part, to me, is removing troublesome members, and you can’t skip that step and still make progress.

[dwolf]

In my five years at DMS and 50+ years on the planet I’ve learned:

1. If you clean up after people, you end up with people that need to be cleaned up after. I no longer clean up after other members (one exception - if someone hurts them selves and has to run to the hospital, I will clean up after them).

2. People with get away with what you let them. In my experience, DMS only rarely disciplines members for egregious behavior (maybe they have banned thousands of members over the years and I just don’t see or hear about it). If there are no consequence for making a mess - why not make a mess? If you see a mess - why not make another one since it seems that some else is cleaning up the messes. Word on the street about DMS is “Just say you didn’t know and nothing will happen to you.” Theft seems to be one exception to this - seems to be zero tolerance. This doesn’t mean that someone that makes a mess should be banned for life. But a warning and/or 7 day ban for first offence may go a long way in sending a message. If I were a chair of a committee (I’m not nor want to be) and I had to go the cameras to figure out who made a mess - it would be an automatic 7 day ban and a warning that if it happens again 30 day ban.

I know we want to retain as many members as possible and disciplining may lead to people leaving - but all the egregious behavior may be leading to other more conscientious members leaving (or not volunteering) due to the all the messes and jacked up machines. We should be striving for an optimal balance.

BTW - IMHO, the machine shop is unbelievably neat, clean and organized compared to the Woodshop. If you really want to get upset - visit the woodshop!

[davdstanton]

It’s clear that my post has struck a nerve, and rightfully so. The persistent issue of members leaving messes on tools and machines is not just confined to the machine shop—it’s rampant throughout all DMS departments. The frustration and anger among us are justified. This behavior is unacceptable and must be addressed immediately.

Let me be clear: I don’t believe these individuals wake up intending to create chaos at DMS. However, their actions—or lack thereof—demonstrate a blatant disregard for their fellow members. The messes left behind force the next person to spend valuable time cleaning up, which is completely unfair and disrespectful.

Here is my proposed solution: comprehensive training.

I am prepared to be part of this group. We need to create a mandatory instructional video covering every department. This video will demonstrate proper cleaning procedures and what is expected from each person after use. For instance, we need to address the unacceptable practice of using the plastic-only belt sander for metal parts, despite clear signage just to name one more item.

Here’s how we enforce this:

1. Mandatory Orientation Video: Every new member must watch this video before gaining access to the facilities. It will cover cleaning protocols and equipment use.
2. Testing for Compliance: After watching the video, members must pass a short test. Access to the facilities will be granted only upon passing.
3. Policy Updates and Enforcement: Signs will be posted at all entry and exit points, stating that all members must watch the video within 30 days. Failure to comply will result in suspended access until they complete the training.

No more excuses. No one can claim ignorance after this training. We will set a clear standard: messes will not be tolerated.

[Christina]

Rather than grumbling, I prefer to dive straight into finding a solution. After all, we’re a bunch of natural-born problem solvers here, aren’t we? I’m sure many of you will agree.

Some solutions;

1. The Stocks
2. Ducking Stools
3. Scarlet Lettering (My personal favorite)

[TBJK]

The person whom left the sign key out of the vise regrettably is not on Talk. I have had a conversation previously with them about leaving the sign key out.

They are getting an “official written” warning. If they do it again they will receive a vacation from the milling machines.

As to the others, it’s rather difficult to determine those individuals. My encouragement would be to see someone leaving a mess or a tool out. Call them out on it.

I’ve done this many times, generally speaking they are receptive to it and don’t normally continue to leave messes in the future.

It’s up to us to hold others accountable. I cannot personally stay in Machine Shop 168 hours a week but together WE can make the difference.

[dwolf]

@davdstanton

mandatory instructional video

The bigger issue in the woodshop is rules violations that can damage machines or hurt users (cutting end grain on the planer, cutting unsupported logs on the bandsaws, cutting concrete forms, etc…). Messes are annoying but generally don’t damage machines. I am in the woodshop working 1 to 2 times a week for about 6 hours. I see anywhere from a minimum of 1 and up to 6 rules violations every 6 hours - And I’m there during the day when it is not crowded!! Yes, I stop people from violating rules. Some violations are not serious (usually didn’t turn the felder on, left a machine running, …) but some are very serious (taking two turns on the planer or trying to plane a board with nails in it - I kid you not someone actually tried).

I proposed a simple annual recertification test years ago. It was super simple to raise awareness of the 20 most important rules. I also converted it to an Agree/disagree so people with test anxiety could take it. It includes cleanup issues. But how to administer it to EVERYONE. Few are on TALK. The message I got back was we can’t email or text members. We might make people aware they are members, they might quit and revenue will go down. I never heard that directly from a board member so maybe it’s made up, maybe its real.

So, how are you going to make it mandatory?