HVAC Reversal Valve Repair

My A/C unit stopped cooling and the culprit was that the one of the thin capillary tubes on the reversal valve got broken right on the joint.

How would you go about fixing this?
The capillary tube is very thin. Can these be welded/soldered reliably?

Here is a picture of the failed joint (on an image from the web, not the actual part obviously)

Thanks!

I’ll forward this to my brother-in-law who does A/C repair for a living. Will get back to you tomorrow evening at earliest. What brand model A/C, I know he’ll ask.

If they can build it by soldering I would think it could be re-soldered. If the tube is as small as it seems a heavy duty soldering iron like I used in the stain glass soldering class (140 watts??) could be used. trying any type of troch around the electrical components would require heavy shielding.

I think it’s doable if accessible without having to unsolder all the other tubing especially if the tube is fitting into a hole and not being soldered just onto the surface.

Don’t forget, HVAC is nearly always silver solder or better.

Probably silphos in this case. It should be able to be fixed, the downfall is it will loose all the refrigerant more than likely.

That’s a given do to strength. I can probably get some of the correct solder from my B-i-L

I think you can get brazing rod/ silphos from Home Depot/lowes. Downfall is you will need to evacuate & recharge if all is lost. Also you will have to heatsink the reversing valve. If your system is older & has R-22 your looking about 30-40$ a lb for refrigerant or 10-20$ a lb for R-410a. Your avg residential unit holds 5-10lbs. There are risks, don’t use 45% silver solder because of the flux, if it gets in the cap tube it’s probably done for. You can also if your careful suck the silphos in as well, you can also overheat it melting the copper. It can be interesting.

It is a Goodman. Thanks for the help!

It already lost all the refrigerant by the way.
A quote I got says it is a 14 lbs system. And the refrigerant is about $120 a pound!!
This unit uses an old type of refrigerant I am told. Any thoughts on this?
It is a big cost just for the refrigerant. New units come with a cheaper refrigerant I suppose.
I am concerned if the failed joint is fixed but gets broken in the future - just the cost of the refrigerant would make this very risky :smile:

So, I am also trying to evaluate the cost of a new system, with cheaper refrigerant (in case similar problems happen in the future) and the new unit should come with a warranty (the warranty on the existing -now broken- unit expired last year)

Thanks all for the help/comments/thoughts.

120$ a lb seems excessive. I’d call & get a second opinion. While yes R-22 can no longer be sold in a unit, it is still around. R-410a is its replacement. Best way is to look at cost of the repair vs cost of the replacement & how old the equipment is. You say the warranty expired? How old is the unit?

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$120/lb for refrigerant sounds high. I am not aware of an “older version” than R-22, which phased in in the 1930’s in common use today.
http://www.amazon.com/R22-Refrigerant-30-Disposable-Tank/dp/B00F06NDS0

I am told that R410a is the devil’s child, and if you can possibly keep a well-functioning R-22 system operational, to so do. Insiders believe that R410a “leaks by nature”, insinuating that all R410a units leak, and will require periodic top-offs and “reseals” until the causes and fixes are ironed out. Given how long the phase-in has already been going on, I have to wonder when the hell the industry is going to get it together…

All that aside.
Obviously cost analysis is in order here. It’s unclear to me if you have abandoned the idea of fixing the capillary tube yourself, but I must advocate against that. Compared to the cost of replacement on refrigerant, a new valve strikes me as the only way to go. Without exact part numbers “goodman reversal valve” searches return as low as $35 and high as $100. If your quote is right, that’s only 1lb of R-22… If others quoted are right, it’s still only 1 re-charge…

I have to state, in answer to your original query, “of course it’s possible to re-afix the capillary tube. It was already done once at the factory.” Of course, it was likely done by a CNC machine that took countless man-hours to program to get it right, because joining a “capillary” tube to a parent tube with that kind of size mismatch requires carefully controlled conditions so as to not obstruct the capillary tube, but actually join to the parent. Odds are good theparts are pre-heated and maintained at such during the build cycle. That’s the nice thing about robots: they don’t bitch about being sweaty because the parts need to be hot. That’s the bitch about modern manufacturing; it can be a real bear for us commoners to reproduce…

TLDNR: no to the fixing of the valve yourself. Cost you say you were quoted for R22 (assuming that’s what’s being used) seems WAY high. My inside sources say to fear R410. If you were happy with the system before the failure, it’s probably worth it to fix it. If it seemed like it was on its last legs…

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Here is more info and details on the quote I have.
It is R-22 refrigerant; the unit takes 14-lbs.
The A/C guy said they would try to weld the tube on the reversal valve and if it can be welded, their quote is about $1600 (welding, refrigerant cost, and labor cost)!! Bulk of this is the cost of R-22.
The other option they gave is replacing the heat pump (25HBC538-is this part number?) with 410 TXV external, slab, disconnect, braker (this is how they wrote it) for about $4000!!

I would rather not fix this myself since I have no experience whatsoever and another failure would likely require another recharge with R-22, which is expensive. Also, replacement of the reversal valve maybe a better option indeed, just to be safe.

Do these make sense? The necessary fixes and the costs? I will call around and get other quotes; I would appreciate if you know any reliable A/C service providers you can recommend.

Thanks again.

Wherezabouts would we be sending recommendations for?

Those numbers sound more inline to me. Is it a 2.5 ton?

410a isn’t bad, you just have to have the correct items paired with it. It actually has better enthalpy than R-22. The issue is usually someone doesn’t replace everything like that they should with 410a. Would you buy new car & put your driveshaft from your old one to your new one? A lot of people try to get away without replacing the line set or so I’m told by my residential buddies. The other thing is usually people will also use the wrong fittings, say type L or M copper, instead of say ACR Copper. Most of the 90’s & 45’s from what I remember have a rating of 475 psig. 410a can get up into the 550 psig on a hot day with a dirty condenser coil. Really 4k is not to bad, if it’s all replaced.

and done properly…

I sent an email to my brother-in-law that does A?C repair for a living linking him to this conversation. Here’s his comment:

I’ve never had to do such a repair.
I don’t see a problem doing so if you have all the equipment:
Nitrogen
Gauges
Vacuum Pump
Refrigerant

If it’s 10 years old or, close to it, I wouldn’t go to the expense of paying to have it done.

First off it is calls for brazing the joint. You will need some oxy acetylene to get hot enough to brave with a silver rod. While you are brazing, you should run nitrogen thru the copper to avoid oxidation. Then, pressure test it.

The problem is that you technically cannot work on it until someone with a license renders it inert.

The worst part is that I pay less than $9 lbs for r22…

Can you elaborate on this? :grinning:

Now that summer is ending, the gray market will start to dump inventory. Watch Craigslist or mechanical shops throwing in a discounted tank. If I buy a dry r22 system, I get a 30# drum for around $225.

That makes some sense, since the dry system will only sell as part of a job with refrigerant…

I certainly wouldn’t buy wet 22