Generator advice

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#81

I’m in a neighborhood that has 15 PSI regulators at the gas meters and the inches WC regulators on premise, usually in the attic. So presumably the regular line pressure is probably at least 30 PSI to ensure the regulators are happy.

During the freeze, we had an Atmos tech monitoring line pressure where it entered the neighborhood. According to second hand reports, when power come on and every heater in the neighborhood came on at once, the main line pressure dropped to 4 PSI. So I’ve ruled out natural gas for generation. But even a 2Kw generator and 1500W space heater will be better than nothing for a few days plumbing protection. And larger gen and more heaters can provide more freeze protection. We usually have about 3 space heaters around the house anyway, to spot heat rooms that we want warmer than the rest for limited hours.

#82

It occurred to me while the freeze was ongoing a major reason I was able to run my furnace was because other neighborhoods lost power and couldn’t compete for the reduced gas supply.

In my specific situation, the additional cost of NG infrastructure would be appreciable - the gas meter is on the opposite side of the house, thus I could pay an additional >$1000 to pipe gas around the house to the proximity of the electrical meter or pay a likely-similar sum of money to run 6/3 UF-B around the house to the locale of the gas meter.

#83

For funsies - and just to run the units periodically to keep them from atrophying gumming up I ran most of the daily-use 120V circuits in my house - outlets, lights, refrigerator - for about 40 minutes without issue. Kicked both units down to ECO and they dropped to near-idle. Took a gamble and started up the office AC while the units were on ECO and almost overloaded things, but they recovered and started the AC without tripping. I’m now quite confident that I could work an entire day almost any time of year with inclement weather being the main impediment.

I’m not sure if I’ll be motivated to build the grand generator doghouse of my dreams this year.

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#84

I guess you will wait until next summer!?

#85

Maybe reviving this thread isn’t the best place to put this and I should post elsewhere, but I bought a Duromax dual fuel, XP12000EH, generator in the fall. I just got around to cranking it and testing it. It works like a champ. I have not installed a transfer panel yet and will for the time being do the redneck thing and drag power cords through the door and into the house. This is much less than ideal, but a lot better than freezing my butt off. I know that you can only carry so many amps so far with extension cord gauge wire, but I bought some heavy gauge cords so I can at least run heaters.

The installation instructions say to ground the unit by driving a copper rod into the ground. They then show the generator on a jobsite where I’m sure it isn’t properly grounded. I know the risk of electrocution is reduced with a ground but I’m wondering just how essential it is? Once I install the power panel this is a moot point as I will ground it to the same ground the power panel is grounded with but while it is in “redneck” mode I’m not sure how important it is.

In any case, I ran the generator on propane the proper distance from the house for ventilation purposes and it runs pretty quiet and provides really nice quality power. (Obviously, not as clean as city power, but still sufficient for non-delicate electronics.)

Anybody have electicians to recommend for installing a transfer panel? I could easily do it myself, as my dad was an journeyman electrican and he taught me how to wire a home and lots of other ciricuits, but I’m sure Carrollton has permit requirements indicating I need to hire a qualified electrician.

I just don’t want my wife to freeze like she did last Feb.

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#86

An ungrounded generator is essentially a double-insulated system where the neutral may or may not be at 0 volts relative to everything around it. If there’s a fault to the chassis somehow, the next thing that provides a lower potential than the generator-appliance(s) system may represent lower potential than the neutral. I would go ahead and do some sort of earth ground myself for field-expedient operation just to be safe.

#87

Does your house have metal pipes? If so, you could use a ground clamp as an expedient clamp point. You could clamp onto a facet bib. Attach one permanently then just attach generator ground wire to it quickly.

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#88

Do you think a water spigot or a natural gas spigot (scary right) would work? Both are metal. There is a ground around the house for various other electrical grounding with an existing ground clamp, but it is about 30-40 ft away from the generator currently.

I bought an 8ft grounding rod a while back for other reasons. How deep does the rod need to be in the ground?

#89

Deeper is always better. But I’ve occasionally done 4 feet for a day of radio operations in the park.

#90

Gas pipe will work. I wouldn’t be worried at all and have seen electricians use them often. I wouldn’t do it close to a connection just in case a leak might happen. But gas inside pipe, even if a spark went through it won’t ignite, it needs oxygen, besides electricity will conduct along metal outside and not gap across inside.

I’ve always hear the desired depth is the whole 8ft. I have one for my hot tub out in the middle of the yard that is probably 7.5’ down with 0.5’ sticking out also has a GFI at connection box. Use a T-post driver to make the job easier if you have one.

But you can run a ground wire permanently to where you are going set the gen up at although ground post is probably cheaper.

#91

If it’s your homestead you can do the work yourself without needing an electrician. There’s an exemption for it.

They’ve got a somewhat decent online filing system for Carrollton.

https://cityserve.cityofcarrollton.com/CityViewPortal

Save yourself some time and submit this form when it asks you about contractors.

HomeownersHomesteadAffidav (1).pdf (119.6 KB)

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#92

You might take a look at this list: Texas shows up on it more often than you might expect.

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#93

Yeah – the summer thunderstorms account for quite a bit of outages.

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#94

Nice! I recently ordered a WGEN9500DF from Westinghouse. I was looking at the one you got as well. What convinced me to go with Westinghouse is a more efficient engine. Not sure if it’s worth a damn in terms of build quality but I’ll find out soon enough.

#95

Let us know what you think of it as you get some experience with it. I’ve been looking at that one off and on.

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#96

Just propane or will it do NG?

#97

I found this in the Amazon questions area for that generator.

“ I’ve since installed a Natural gas conversion kit and hooked it up using 3/4" pipe, 5 feet from meter. The generator performed perfectly, however I recognize that Nat Gas will generate a little less wattage but I believe I had plenty to spare,…”

I’d opt for that conversion kit for sure. It would take a really, really big problem for the natural gas lines to lose pressure.

#98

I live with that, basically I have unlimited NG and don’t need to store fuel. If the NG isn’t working, furnace isn’t either. Shut off water at street, then drive to sister’s house in OK or friend’s in Houston.

#99

You would think that.

My neighborhood, most of the meters seem to be set up for PSI G to the house, with the inch WC regulator in the attic. My understanding is that the PSI G service is supposed to be 15 psi. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the lines in the neighborhood are supposed to be at least 40 PSI, if not closer to 100 to 120. During the February event, we had an atmos tech parked where the main line entered the neighborhood. From what I heard secondhand, when power came on, and all the heaters came on at once, that main line was dropping down to 4 PSI. I’ve dropped natural gas from consideration, at least at this house.

#100

Kinda surprising. Normally its only 5 psi in the neighborhood to the meter/regulator. Then from the meter/regulator drops to inches WC. Next time I’m an a plant I check to see what pressures they run. IE one plant is taking methane from a landfill & injecting the gas into the NG line.