Free to good home : Quad IVc pick and place

OK, so the time has come to clear my garage out and pass on my Quad IVc pick and place machine to a new owner.

I will make this available to anyone who wants it, for free, and include 8x tape feeders, 1x triple nozzle holder, hand held terminal, lots of other bits and pieces, and a ton of reels of components.

The machine worked fine when I last used it about 12 months ago, but it does take some setting up. Remember this machine was manufactured in 1998ish, so is not point and click :slight_smile:

I also have a non-functioning machine that can be used for spare parts.

Each machine is about 5’x5’x5’ and weights about 1000lb.

If you want the machines you do not have to use them functionally, I am OK with using both machines for project parts if you want. There are some HUGE capacitors, very high power steppers, massive power supplies, solid work bed, precision lead-screws and a multitude of other machine components that someone can definitely use and/or break up and sell on eBay. I honestly don’t care either way.

Alternatively, one machine is functional and I used it for low volume production a few years ago (this is a full production machine though and can run a lot of boards)

The only thing is that whomever takes this needs to take both machines. I simply need the garage space back, so you will need to arrange pickup. We will need to coordinate this a little since one machine is not on a palette, so we will need to work out how to get it one one :slight_smile:

I also have a 4 zone Madell-RF430 re-flow oven for sale at the bargain price of $900. This is much lighter and can easily be lifted/moved by 2 people. It does require 240V though (available at most homes/businesses)

The Quad runs from regular 110V.

Let me know if you or anyone you know is interested in either the Quad or the Madell (personal or business, I don’t care).

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@artg_dms I’d love to have a real one to play with at DMS.

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Steve you’re awesome.

Electronics is post-expansion and the PCB mill is nearly online and we have a nearly-functional reflow oven and this is the pick and place we need.

It can go on the east-facing wall of the fire closet that we can’t figure out what to do with when the rest of amateur radio goes to its new home. I’ll figure out what to do with the nonfunctioning spare since it’s part of the deal. If nothing else I can store it until we know we don’t need parts.

I’m interested in taking them if I can’t convince anyone that DMS needs to, but I’d way rather have it at the space.

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From experience, this is not the machine you want for a DMS environment. Pick and place machines like this are meant solely for production. Even if you are versed on the software, this only makes since when doing board runs in the 100s and you already have metal solder stencil and large reflow over or pass through reflow oven.

If you were to get a pick and place for DMS, you would want something more meant for prototype runs with a built in solder paste dispenser and real vision, plus modern OS support. Example,
image
https://www.manncorp.com/starter-lab-line.html

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Nick,
I agree, this is not really a good fit for general use.
Having said this, I have used the setup for low volume runs of about 15 boards of about 20 components.
The setup time is probably 3 or 4 hours for a project with 20 to 30 components, so for boards that have a lot of the same components it works well. Common components which are left on the machine obviously help reduce this time.
Regarding stencils, I have used both metal and lasered my own on overhead projector slides, so this is not as big an issue. The key here is a repeatable jig, but that is easy with some old/spare PCB strips and tape :slight_smile:
For re-flow I have used both the 4 zone and a small bench top (you know the cheap Chinese ones I am talking about) so yes, a multi-zone helps but again is not critical.
If DMS does decide to take the Quads I will also donate the reflow if wanted :slight_smile:
The machine also has both up and down facing vision although I have only ever used the down facing vision.

I have offered this to DMS before and as I say, I agree this is not a great option if the expectation is for general membership to just drop on by and run a few boards :slight_smile: This is why I am offering it up to anyone who feels they want to ‘play’ with it and/or just strip it for some cool parts. Or, like me, want to run a few boards without the tedium of hand placing.

Even the Manncorp machines can take some setup. I looked at these when I purchased the Quad and they are not cheap. For DSM I would recommend the cheap Chinese desktop systems in the $4K range. Again, they still take quite a bit of setup.

Another option for anyone who decides to take these Quads is to convert the non working machine to something driven by OpenPnP possibly? Would be a great project and the mechanicals are just about as solid as you can get.

I also just updated the initial message to clarify that the Quad is 110V.

Anyhow, machines are available to anyone who wants to come pick 'em up :slight_smile:
BR,
Steve

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We have had a pick and place before. It went largely unused.

As noted, we are a much better fit for a prototype oriented machine. This is not that.

I agree that this isn’t the best machine for us to actually make boards with (IMHO a Chinese reflow oven would be all we need), but hey the price is right and it would be a good learning experience for people to get to play around with. That’s kinda what we’re here for right? Learning to do things with tools you wouldn’t normally have access to.

We can always pass it down to the next chumps when a better option comes around.

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With the new rules around disposing of assets, this may not be worth the effort to get rid of.

How I remember these days. :slight_smile:

I patented and built bike lights for a couple years, product name was Bike After Dark. Given 3 or 4 hours work, I could populate and reflow probably 2 or 3 7"x10" boards with about 115 placements per side and 2 reflows per board, these would then break apart into 6 bike lights per board. So 3 to 4 hours setup was a production of 36 to 48 finished lights. And those were finished, QCed and ready to package. It seems you might of been a bit slower than I, but I have way to much practice assembling this stuff by hand as my first 200+ lights were all hand soldered, no reflow.

I do see value in having a pick in place like this at DMS. It could serve as a warning to all those like me, that thought this kind of machine made since for small projects and made even more since for medium projects. I would of saved a lot of money and even more time learning it was not easy and just paid the production costs to have my product produced. Instead of dropping a bunch of money into training and purchasing an old pick and place. As, I barely paid back the investment and made a minimal profit doing it all myself. Where I would of had so much more time and money to market and sell my lights had I done it differently.


Machines of this age have almost zero monetary. No one other than dorks like us are willing to purchase machines this old. So disposal is taking it to a dump. Your not getting rid of an asset with value.


Now, if we have some one wanting to build and amazing HUGE 3D Printer, this would be an amazing platform as nearly none of the printers on the market have anywhere near the quality of components on a machine like this. Plus, these machines are all stepper driven and would work with many of the controllers on the market given some adaptions. Plus, the head it strong enough you could mount the spool of ABS directly to it. Now that would be wow for DMS. :blush:

Well I believe it says we can dispose of anything that has ‘de minimis’ value, and since OP is offering the pick and place for free, that’s an easy argument to make.

Not the first time on this topic. See - Pick and Place Machine Needed

Specs for this machine are here - http://www.goppm.com/specs/quad-4c.pdf

So let’s do the “rude reality” check here. Both the good and bad.

The good:

  1. The ability to do production runs on projects such as DMS logo-ed blynkie badges for hand outs at conventions, advertising, etc.
  2. The ability to do production runs on custom boards/badges for conventions.
  3. The ability to do production runs on custom boards for in house projects/needs. Rfid interfaces, locator beacons for equipment, custom boards for Arduino, RPi, etc.
  4. Interesting learning process.
  5. Cool bragging rights.

The bad:

  1. Requires 208 -240 Vac single phase and compressed air. Currently the ELab has neither. Our neighbors in Science have 208 Vac which could be tapped. Not sure what plans, if any, for compressed air in the flex area (and related committee areas) is.
  2. Looking at the specs, the 5’ x 5’ footprint is optimistic. Currently there is no room for this. Yes, the Ar SIG will be moving to the back corner of the warehouse after the electrical dress out and walls are done. Also the ELab and Science each will get a 3’ x 17’ area added to their committee areas after the personal storage bins are moved. So some time in the (near/distant?) future the ELab will have room for this. Or for more benches or? Finding a place to store the 2nd unit will be a problem.
  3. Old PC and OS. PC dies, then what? Sftwr discs available for a rebuild? Manuals?
  4. If we accept the donation, it becomes our problem on how to dispose of if it doesn’t work out.

Moving on. Let’s talk about commitment…

  1. Form PnP Sig?
  2. Who’s willing to step up, sign their name on the dotted line to learn, run, maintain and teach? This would be a long term commitment. The track record at DMS is mixed at best on this. And NO - the current (and future) chairs are not going to do this for you.

Not intended to rain on anyone’s parade, but there’s many moving parts to this.
Floor’s open. Feel free to comment.

FYI - Electronics Committee Mtng this Thurs in the Prpl Rm at 7:30p.
https://calendar.dallasmakerspace.org/events/view/15169

Yeah, I just couldn’t handle the tedium of hand soldering that many components :slight_smile:
For me it was more about the quick turn for low volume runs and prototypes than anything else.

The Quad is actually 110V, but does need either compressed air (internal venturi) or shop vacuum.

I DO have all manuals, software disks etc… and even have full mechanical and electrical/electronic schematics :slight_smile:

I wholeheartedly agree this is not really an item that would be a good fit for DMS other than as a basis for an interest in PnP or as a source of some cool components. This is really why I opened up the offer to anyone else who might have the space/interest in playing with it. It worked great for me for what we needed at the time, but not any longer.

The weigh-in value of the metal might be worth something to someone, just not me.

We might could change the latter pretty easily… Vector expressed some interest for compressed air at one time.

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I have experience using this model. There are similar models made by the same company that are a bit cheaper with fewer slots for rolls of components. When it works it’s great and a big time saver, but they are really touchy. Lots of weird small problems that if you don’t know what you are doing are a real pain. Also it vibrates a lot so you can really put it on a cart and need a big area for it with a couple feet on each side. There are manuals in English but they are pretty much just a courtesy.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950915121.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2fdd4cb4RHR2DG&s=p&algo_pvid=4f941cb2-f9e2-4ebe-aa51-3a9907f9f68a&algo_expid=4f941cb2-f9e2-4ebe-aa51-3a9907f9f68a-2&btsid=0ab6f82c15828514001212077e312a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_