I didn’t so much miss it as you made it poorly. “that’s a bit harsh…” has a critical tone to it right from the get go.
Anyway the point you were trying to make misses the base. Teachers offer classes when they want/can. Life or death issues or acts of God aside, if you can’t ensure you can make the class, don’t sign up, or cancel in a timely manner.
I guess you and Walter have never had to drive across the metroplex for a job. It’s a crapshoot and you don’t know how good it will be until you hear traffic on KRLD.
In my case at least you would be wrong. For a while I needed to be in downtown Ft Worth from Plano at 8:00a to start work. The first day, I left at 5am to ensure I would be on time. As I got a feel for the travel time during morning rush hour and my alternative routes, I got to the point I could leave as late as 5:45 and still ensure I would get to work on time.
Did that for over six months, and was never once late. That despite multiple mornings with traffic delays due to accidents.
Thanks Walter,
But in this case you had plenty of time to leave the house whereas people cannot always leave work early if traffic is snarled. The student can be blamed, etc… best laid plans and all… but sometimes shit just happens.
Instructors should keep this in mind if doing weeknight classes before complaining about late students.
It would be more correct to say I made the time. If you are unsure you can make it on time, then you should not register for the class. Like I said, I have had multiple people tell me that they weren’t sure they could make the start time if traffic was an issue and then ask if I could schedule the next class for a different time. The key here is that they aren’t expecting that they should be able to come in late and disrupt a class in progress.
I agree with this, if they can. It is one of the reason I always tried to schedule my week night classes for 7p
I’ve taught classes in the past and most were well attended, but there was almost always someone who came late or canceled at the last minute. One class and the final straw for me was when five people agreed to take a class and I scheduled it. Then only one student showed up. I taught the student but received no honorarium and felt that those that scheduled to attend just didn’t appreciate the instructor’s time enough to attend.
I haven’t taught a class since. Any class I’ve taken I show up early to attend and if I absolutely had to cancel, say due to the flu or something, I would alert the instructor through a personal IM or by email, etc.
In my case, it isn’t the honorarium so much as why bother teaching when people are so inconsiderate as to cancel or just no-show? I suspect I’m not alone in this perspective.
I am reconsidering teach a few classes again but I’ll charge for the class so as to give an incentive for the students to attend.
I’d like to provide my personal anecdote as a new member. This is not an excuse, but rather to offer a perspective.
I recently joined DMS in the last two weeks. I was very excited to learn something new, so I signed up for a few classes. This past week, I missed a class I signed up for. It was my fault, because I simply forgot. Yes I received the original email for registration. But I had forgotten to add it manually to my calendar, like I had the others. So when the day came around, it slipped past. I wouldn’t have remembered, had I not finally looked at my phone and saw a text from the teacher a few hours after class had ended. I was upset with myself and sent a note to the instructor to apologize.
It was unprofessional of me to miss the class, however, there was a reason why it happened.
Attending DMS is new to me. It’s not in my routine yet, and so if it’s not top of mind on a particularly hectic day in the rush I just forgot. Even if I had paid money for the class, it still wouldn’t have fixed that day when my memory just failed me. I really do value the educational classes offered, that’s a big reason I joined. But it’s different than paying for and going to a class in college. In college, you are signed up to pursue a degree, the class happens on a regular schedule day after day…Week after week for a sizable number of months. It’s easier to “remember”. One class on one random day for one hour, that doesn’t quite fit with your normal routine, can be something that could slip the mind when things get busy.
Factor one person’s forgetfulness times the number of new members that might come in each month, and it could add up. Not the root of all problems, but enough to consider.
No worries, I’m making it a point to add them immediately to my calendar now. So as not to contribute to the problem. Just thought I’d share a point of view that doesn’t boil down to blatant disregard for other’s time.
WOW! Thanks for all the suggestions and condolences.
There is no one clear answer. I strongly support the idea of classes being free or cheap. I want my electronics classes to be free. I teach PlasmaCAM which has a $5 charge for consumables. I think that is great considering that it covers consumables for the machine and people do not pay for time used.
I did a fair amount of training in my career and generally enjoy it. There are a number of microcontroller classes at at DMS and those that I attended were great. We are barely touching the vast area which could be covered. I wanted is to use devices that were unusual and often not available locally and offered a “Build a $10 Alarm that Tweets.” It went over well and everyone left with $10 worth of parts and I’m afraid that most have not used them. I decided to devote two honorariums to stocking up and supplying all parts for a couple of classes to be offered occasionally. I overshot my budget a bit and then some ELab parts I was planning to use went missing a few days. I decided to order more parts and become totally self sufficient. (Wow - toys coming out my ears.) I’m in it for less than three honorariums and have no regrets. It just means that I have to do another class to cover costs - no problems there.
After I started teaching, I became aware of the no-show problem. I have missed but decided that I owe the teacher a short PM or email apology. Having that as a personal unwritten guideline helps to be aware of schedule. I did miss sending one to @artg_dms last when the grandkids dropped in unexpected and I missed the electronics committee meeting. Only two people made the meeting. Sorry Art.
The two that attended were great. One cranks out a number of classes. The other is a fairly new member who will be cranking out classes before long. Teachers appreciate teachers!
[ Edit Update - None of the no-shows or late cancellation have contacted me. ]
If my experience was only with weeknight classes I might give this half credit…but during my time off I did day maker, midnight maker, and the standard 7:00. Some were free others charged. All of them had no shows and late people. On one occasion I took three classes in a day and there were nine no shows and six tardies over 15 min. Twice they were over an hour late. Traffic isn’t to blame when someone isn’t coming to class on time from down the hall. That is a simple IDGAF attitude and preregistring for a class is optional. If you are across town don’t sign up, come, and if there is a spot you’ll get it. You don’t show up consistently late for work or not call in and tell the company it’s their fault for not having your start time later. It’s good to hear this is a new problem because it means it can be nipped in the bud. If the issue is a few unique users being flaky a ban count will solve it. If its a rash of multiples it’s a cultural problem.
The one class I took that had no tardiness and all in attendance was Multicam and I really don’t think as a space it’s in the spirit of our 503 status or mission to charge $50 a pop for classes unless we implement a token system where good behavior earns you free credits for said classes
Exactly. 5pm-7/8 works much better for me than 7-9 since I live 45 min away and report to work at 5am but I assume majority get off at 5 and 2 hours is a reasonable window. 7p is also DMS tradition so people know to be there at 7 for an evening class (in theory)
I don’t think we are saying things don’t happen. I woke up with a fever today and did not come to help a member for fear of spreading something contagious in a place where many don’t have insurance. However I don’t see where you would be upset if you were told another miss would keep you from registering for a short period. Attempting to correct shows you don’t feel entitled. The issue isn’t people missing once in a while it’s that the behaviors are systematic and the TEACHER is expected to not only bear the consequences but are supposed to not be insulted when it happens time and time again. If your theory is correct and it’s the rapid growth learning curve then we need to change the policy so the teachers aren’t suffering from that curve. Obviously it’s costing us teachers and potentially some super high caliber ones
Re class start time
Teachers schedule when it fits into their lives and they can make the commitment. If they’re flexible, they’ll do it when it’s most likely to fit the majority, but sometimes it is what it is.
The further assumption being that a student won’t sign up if the the time doesn’t work for them. And anyone driving across town at high traffic knows potential for issues and it can be planned for usually. At least to minimize the size of delay. And with smart phones, it’s not cumbersome to contact the instructor if contact information is provided.
As far as “backing up” the time (meaning have it 30 min or so later in evening for those coming for work)…
Actually, I’ve dealt with this question recently. There’s some of my jewelry classes just can’t be taught under three hours. I’ve tried and they run over which affects folks’ planning. I’d rather allow extra time in class and let them out early than run over by a lot. Had a couple classes that did this. Folks were nice about it but I felt bad (new classes, was still working out time required, and two hours was too optimistic. So I have since tweaked flow and logistics, plus made them longer if need be. Much improved.)
So, I know that the 7-9pm window is a sweet spot for weekday class timing, but I need three hours for a class, my question to current students in a full class I was teaching was if I host a three hour class, would you prefer 7-10, 6:30-9:30, or 6-9?
Without hesitation, 5 out of 6 immediately answered 6-9pm please. The last person was flexible. I was surprised since i had figured the time to get there at 6 would be problematic, but apparently it wasn’t as much of a concern as folks getting home when they wanted to (another underscore to me for being extremely careful to not run over time as much as possible).
So, yeah, this next run of classes where some needed three hours, I scheduled those 6-9pm based on student feedback.
I will likely mix it up in the future with different timings, but that’s this run. So far based on registration, it’s not an impediment. And I’m open to other times. And I’m flexible at the moment. But like someone posted above, it’s super frustrating to put together a class based on folks asking for a class, you schedule it, commit, plan, prepare, then the very folks asking for it are the ones that flake. Annoying and frustrating.
The main thing is don’t sign up if you can’t make it. Cancel if crap happens or once you know of a conflict. Communicate with the instructor if things are last minute. Basic respect and etiquette.
[edit to add]
I’m also waiting for the day where I have folks flake but don’t cancel, I allow stand-bys in but can’t register them late because the spots weren’t canceled, teach an honorarium eligible class but not enough folks according to who registered. And there’s something in me strongly resents checking off someone present when they weren’t. The only way to show the actual number present.
What we need is the ability to manually remove someone that’s registered. (That would also help if we have a repeat person abusing sign-ups vs alternative of setting the class to instructor approval. I’d rather not go there.)
I can’t stress this enough… The honorarium was designed as a “thank you for volunteering” not to be used as payment. These teachers are volunteering their time to help educate others.
I’m not saying teachers shouldn’t be paid. They can charge for their classes and materials if they need compensation to teach.
The honorarium system is not compensation for their teaching time.
I’ve seen this sentiment echoed multiple times in this thread and others, and it baffles me. You realize that private universities charging tens of thousands of dollars tuition are also 501c3 educational nonprofits, right? Nonprofit doesn’t mean every event needs to be revenue neutral, nor does the organization as a whole.
What is appropriate to do if someone does not show up, does not make contact but signs up for a later class with the same teacher? Is it appropriate to send a note? What would it say? Keep it clean and remember that we all make mistakes and have sudden schedule changes.
Thank you for posting this. This is something I personally tend to lose sight of from time to time.
Those institutions don’t tout themselves as a community. They are there for personal gain and maintain accreditation in return for all that cash. I imagine membership would drop if we charged like a college (who’s dollars get you a marketable degree in return)…and I would wager the income lost from those members would far outstrip the token amounts from the classes.
Unless things changed at the last board meeting DMS wasn’t revenue neutral
Re contacting no-shows that sign up again
As mentioned, I’m keeping a list of no-call/no-show folks. This is folks that didn’t take care of whatever contact before class.
If I have no contact at all, it’s a strike against them.
Contact me later, it depends. There’s very valid reasons so ok crap happens. A note, but it’ll slide.
Then there’s the flimsy excuse only made because I happen to run into you or it wouldn’t have happened…that’s probably gonna be a strike. And then there’s the student that I know for sure flaked on both me and another instructor in same short time period. That’s a pattern even if it wasn’t both on my class. I made a note.
I don’t know if I have a hard line on it yet, but I’d say if I have two no-call/no-shows then definitely we’ll be having a discussion if I see you signed up again. I don’t have a bit of issue calling someone. It doesn’t have to be confrontational, just a discussion.
I think some folks honestly may have no idea of the ripple of issues it causes, so ok, opportunity for education and one more chance. Fine.
Unrepentant flaking, I would likely encourage them to cancel please. And if they don’t follow through I would likely pursue having them removed from the admin side (since we can’t, which is like to see changed).
So far it hasn’t been necessary yet, but unfortunately I think it’ll come up eventually, so that’s my plan with the way the current system works.
Pretty sure most colleges do market themselves as communities, actually.
However, my point was that there’s a whole spectrum of nonprofits and making a point of charging nothing for classes doesn’t make one any more of a 501c3.
You would certainly lose some students by charging more, but I’m equally certain excellent teachers are lost to a culture that doesn’t value their effort. Who is more valuable to a mission of education?
Others seem to say you can…
(I’ve never tried, so don’t know, but it seems like there should be a consensus here…)