Fire marshall in Dallas closes tap houses

I heard about this on WFAA news tonight, One comment made in the broadcast was
that the tap rooms are really bars and that is not the same as what they were approved for

Something for us to consider

BTW a friend that works for a law firm in NYC in their permits dept doesnt have a good word o say about
Fire Marshalls they have have a issues with them

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Well the problem is that tabc doesn’t have a good definition of what an bar is , literally there are multiple way to operate one if these if you are you selling you own production .

Also I think they are avoiding a city tax this way as well

What makes you think that?

TABC has nothing to do with Dallas city permitting and fire marshal restrictions. Each of these businesses applied for and completed all city permitting and are now being closed and accused of lying about their intentions. This is the same tired story of city government not having their act together and arbitrarily deciding when and how to enforce restrictions.

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“The Cidercade and Peticolas were shut down the day before New Year’s Eve”

Hardly arbitrary IMHO, the next day was Sunday, so no ability to do anything before a big holiday for drinking establishments. Someone in Dallas was out to be nasty about making a point.

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I can’t disagree with you there.

It sure looks that way.
My biggest question is: “how many warnings did these establishments receive before they were chained up?”.
It seems to me, from what I’ve read on the topic, every business should get at least 1 warning and some period of time (a week, a month, something) to “clean up” or be chained. It seems like these guys got smacked down just before one of their most profitable periods, without any such opportunity. I understand, and support, the idea that a lack of safety in a venue should be addressable by an official such as the Fire Marshall, and sometimes immediate closure IS appropriate; these instances do NOT appear from my vantage to be one of those appropriate times. this, unfortunately, sends me down accusatory pathways I prefer not to tread…

Packing a wheel bearing? I don’t get it.

On a related note: A friend of mine prepared his wheel bearings by smearing them with grease. Needless to say, they failed, badly, a few months later. I caught him the second time. “What your you doing?” “Packing my wheel bearings.” “No, you are installing them. Packing is a little different. Let me show you.” “What the eff are you doing? The grease will naturally get in there.” “And, you will be here again in a few months. Or, you can do this right.”

Pack your wheel bearings people! PACK your wheel bearings!

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Greased palms? :blankspace:

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Like the warning Hatcher’s received?

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Well they are operating in kind of gray area , as far permits go , I think they operate under BREWPUB LICENSE (BP) which allows of on site production and consumption , not sure If need are required to have one for city because they are technically a brewery and don’t fall under city of dallas Guide line of a bar to qualify for the permit if I remember correctly

Also look at what they closed down that are literally with walking distance they didn’t close barcadia which I would say pretty similar to cidercade
Or any other taproom in the area such as deb or 4 Corners rooms which happen to be in other districts in dallas something fishy here

I’m not sure I follow the “gray area” they’re operating in- it doesn’t seem to me that there’s been any indication that the city (or anyone else) thinks they’re improperly properly permitted. Also not sure how this relates to the taxes you referred to above (or any issues regarding taxation).

They city of dallas imposes special tax on alcohol permits issued with in city limits, brewery typically Exemption From this tax if I remember correctly , the city is having issues that there tap room is big as the brewing space in same cases and that at point are they a bar or brewery? Hence the gray area

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They are a brewpub. There is no grey area. Bars don’t produce alcohol that is then distributed off-site.
Barcadia doesn’t produce alcohol, Cidercade does.

Okay, I think I got it.

Nah, the city collects a fee and issues a permit, and they do it to breweries and brewpubs that sell beer over the counter the same as they would a bar or a restaurant operating under a beer/wine license. The rules were a little different before the breweries were authorized to sell their product onsite and changed for a “tour” while giving the beer away for free, but that change came a couple of years ago- the trigger is “retail sales” and they all do that and require the permit now. To my knowledge, it has nothing to do with the size of the taproom relative to the size of the manufacturing area or whether the establishment operates under the Brewpub provisions. The fee does go up for those BP’s that have a Mixed Beverage (Liquor) License- which production breweries are ineligible for. (Dallas City Code, Chapter 6, Section 10)

As far as I can tell the official line the city is using regarding these closures is that the building permits that were submitted during construction or remodeling for the tap-room don’t match the use. The city is saying essentially- “From the plans you submitted and we approved, it didn’t look like you were going to run a busy bar or an arcade. As a result, we didn’t require you to have fire suppression systems that are in line with what we’d require of businesses like that. Now you are running one of those, so we are gonna make you have sprinklers.”

Now, I agree with the fact that it happening to three places within walking distance (two on the same day and the other a few days later) stinks to high heaven of someone with an agenda, and it might well be, but I don’t think there’s much chance that there will be much lasting effect- it’s too profitable for all of these places not to get it fixed and back open. So I guess if the agenda was to be annoying, good job, it probably worked.

Similarly, I can’t think of any others that might find themselves in the cross-hairs except maaayybe Community. Four Corners just built a brand new facility from the ground up- I have to imagine it has a bad-ass, modern, fire system. Deep Ellum just remodeled their tap room into a full restaurant a year or two ago and I’m sure with a kitchen they got all the fire system attention they need. Same goes for the brewpubs- Braindead, Whiterock, On Rotation, Mailai- all either have kitchens or are new enough (or both) that the fire systems should pass muster. Comunity should be taking a hard look at their systems because they are a hold-over from the old system, with no kitchen that lives in Dallas and I doubt they’ve had to deal with permitting on that part on the brewery since they built it out.

Lakewood, Bitter Sisters, Intrinsic, Ect., are probably cool 'cause they ain’t in Dallas.

part of the reason I posted this was because of the disconnect in approved use and the real use
I think we could get caught in that since there is not a category for us

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We’re not in Dallas and don’t experience restaurant-style crowds very often, but I suppose anything’s a possibility. It’s likely something that would have come up during the Hatcher’s “discussion.”

It s different but the city, could likely find an issue
to explit if they wanted to

I suppose so, but I haven’t heard of an indication that they’ve been looking to and you could say that about anything. There’s not even a way to plan absent some kind of indication of intent.