The viciousness of DMS flame wars shocks me, I mean you have to see these people again in real life…
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We are a large group of people that all work together towards many different goals. We also have a ever growing history with each other. We are going to bump heads, feelings are going to be hurt, and bad argument tactics are going to be used. But, after reading the words, make sure you also take time to look at the members actions. Actions have a much large impact than words. The members that you may hold issue with their words are often lifting more than their weight around the space. Though it may be in areas you don’t see. I work in sales and a common saying is, A customer’s words can be lies, but their feet tell the truth.
Also, Talk opens up conversation to the entire group, this allows for many more opinions. This is a good thing, the catch is it also lessens the impact of an individual’s opinion. So as an individual you will have to do more to stand out. Some do this by getting a small group to pile on, others do it by increasing the sharpness of their comments. But, take the words for what they are and watch for the actions.
A lot of it is hidden in members only categories - which is just fine with me. I miss DMS and look forward to being in the wood shop and CA again this fall, but I won’t bother getting involved. Made that mistake once, and I can be taught.
At more than 1500 members now it surprises me how few people are actually a part of the operations. It’s almost like that’s how it’s designed to function.
I’m not sure it is intentional design, but rather a byproduct of control structures. Certain members have a closer relationship with the core control group of DMS (the Board of Directors). This is a give and take relationship, these members are the members that are often “more” willing to take on assigned tasks (aka shit work). That being said this group can be jaded and closed to out side help.
We can’t just trust everyone with everything, especially with such a high need for culture acceptance in the group. So it will take time for the control structures to figure their way out into a more distributed model. So if this is what you want, support the structures within the group that are working in that way. Because the success of those programs will lead to others wanting to implement that structure in the broader space. Catch being if those structures are not working they won’t be replicated.
That was nicely argued.
Indeed, there have been a few changes over the last six months or so. I suspect there are more coming. I never minded taking out the trash or cleaning up a room.
What’s crazy about the flame wars is that if an outsider steps into the mix, the warring factions immediately partner to slay the newcomer. Saw it happen over and over again. In fact, it’s a pretty decent technique to use to stop them.
That is great, and I as well as many other appreciate this. To clarify though, I wouldn’t call this the “shit work.” Rather, the shit work is more like we need someone to trouble shoot an electrical issue, change the AC filters on the roof without being asked, find out the water isn’t draining from the compressor and inform the board with the needs and repair it. But, needs for many of these kinds of tasks are not apparent to all and some of them require I higher level of trust in the group which has to be built up to.
I would say that this isn’t a planned technique, rather it is an issue of history. New members do not know the history of DMS and often stumble into old pit falls. So it looks like the group is piling on when it is just that more people share a particular view point due historic discussion and actions that have happened in the past. To give a none DMS example, imagine a elementary math student walking into a high school math class and asking a question. The whole class might pipe up and answer the question quickly. This can be intimidating and a bit dismissive when a consensus style response is given to a person making a suggestion.
Then you have the defensive nature of the person to deal with. Some just disappear and quit after being seemingly shut down by the group, some learn and work their way into the group, and the most visible response is to throw a bit of an adult temper tantrum. Where the person starts attacking other members of the group. Looking back at your past. I would put it at some of column B and C, You also keyed in of Walter who also tends to respond with some of column B and C. Visibly arguing in this group puts a stigma on you. You are classified by many as confrontational. if your not accepting of that you have to change your behavior in order to change the minds.
I personally would rather have my feelings known and deal with the confrontational stigma, rather than back room politic and deal with the need to keep up false appearances. That said, staying out of the “tantrums” is also a needed step to grow. I, like you and many others have lashed out after having my points dismissed. It is a hard not to get defensive about things you hold passion for.
But surely you admit there’s a certain horror to having two people flame each other and then turn in unison to remind the newcomer to “be excellent.”
As I said, I’m there for the equipment* when I make it back. Ya’ll do your best not to burn the place down in the meantime.
*Caveat: I’m there for the equipment and the chance that @mreynolds will recreate his mad campfire cooking skills if we camp out again someday. 
I don’t feel that is horror. People are imperfect and often try to apply rules to others that they are not following themselves. “Be Excellent” is a goal that many with and without power in the group attempt to use as a stick to shut down those they disagree with. I don’t agree with it’s use in this way, but without outsider pointing it out often time those misusing it are blind to the misuse.
Thank you for the defensive and dismissive finish to the conversation. I hope you enjoy the equipment.