I’m hoping the moderators will move several post concerning this from another thread over here.
I’m going to do a little bit about talking about risk we can reduce risk but you cannot eliminate risk. I will tell you something that’s why I think I said in that thread the riskiest thing is that everyone of us does is getting an automobile and drive to DMs. We are at more Danger from car wrecks then we are from any of our equipment here. We need to be able to analyze real risk and reduce them impossible we cannot make risk zero. Not unless none of us get out of our bed every day.
we have had things that DMs that people could have got severely hurt on that have been totally ignored for years and I’m going to mention the front steps to the old Lobby. I fell off I’ve seen several other people follow a ball on them and I’ve talked to others who fell on them. But that was not considered risky enough for either there was no way we can fix it so we had to live with it.
rules will not eliminate risk wall rules might help with some risk they someone from getting mentally distracted while doing something it will not keep a machine from malfunctioning. It won’t keep injuries from happening. I’m going to go back to what I think is worse injury we have which is Hannah’s accident with the wax injector she had been trained in how to use that she uses a wax injector and her work with regularity so we can’t say there was a training issue. In jewelry we discussed this accident and what we could do to prevent it that’s how you properly handle an accident I don’t believe we made a single rule we decided we wanted to make sure that we had Dental pressure gauges to know the pressure and that we needed to double-check the wing nuts on the injector to make sure no one had barred them and replace them with the wrong right wing nuts. A rule would not have fix that but understanding what might have happened has made the wax injector a much safer piece of equipment.
Rules get in the way of people doing what they need to you can have so many rules that people cannot enjoy their self. I know it is very easy for folks to want to micromanage but this we are not a bunch of cubicle workers we are artists we are creative we are in Venice and that is not going to work with us a more Cooperative method is more likely to reduce the chance of accidents can I home big rule book
Tak
I used to have show dogs and one day the doorbell rang one night when I wasn’t in the front room my mother went to answer it two of my betches got in a fight and my mother managed to trip over and fall on top of them. I thought, my mother was larger than I am now I know why she got Bette. I had her doctor was out of town I think on a skiing trip if I remember and I had to go to a different doctor her doctor was so alarm that she’d gotten a dog bite and he said well I wouldn’t have dogs if there’s a risk of them biting me. Her doctor was so alarm that she’d gotten a dog bite and he said well I wouldn’t have dogs if there’s a risk of them biting me. I looked him in the eye and said do you ever go skiing? And he said yes I go skiing how many people do you know that’s broken their leg? He didn’t respond but he shut up. If we go skiing we take a chance how many people have been killed going skiing but Millions enjoy skiing every year. But that doesn’t keep people from skiing into a tree unless they ski on a fake Snow Hill which is a lot of fun.
which I believe it was called to serve man and it dealt was robots who very strictly followed the rules of robotics they could not allow man to take any risk and well man couldn’t create he couldn’t do anything he couldn’t even take care of himself because well he might get hurt. Anyone I think we should have a discussion on what we can do to reduce situations that are dangerous.
have to grow up and act like adults now I will agree with that but I don’t stunt do some of the crap that I see done on Lakers talk all the time the personal attacks on people the belittling of them and such. That’s juvenile that’s high school. That’s more great School Junior High…
Okay folks folks are afraid of the dangers around here. Well any tool can be dangerous I know people that have sewn through their fingers with a common everyday ordinary Home sewing machine. That’s true let me ask a solid question that I would like to see an answer to what have been the major injuries we have at had at the in the last 2 years I would think the major one would be any injuries that require someone to be taken to the hospital and probably stuck in the category would be anyone who had to seek treatment at the ER AR at a doctors office within 24 hours of the injury. I want to know about all these dangerous things that are hurting people. The last major injury I know of was an experienced person using a tool that I knew how to use when they were totally sober and either the to malfunction are someone had replaced the wing nuts with the wrong Wing nuts. Now that’s the last one I know about. That’s why I’m asking what else has happened.
Major Woodshop injury that was by an experienced member Zach had been drinking. But that’s a story from 2 years ago or more it’s not current.
The problem I’m hearing from people is that there are now people in charge that will the little and Bully other members. That makes it a very unpleasant place to be.
I tried to post something earlier and I don’t think anybody but a couple of people read it please go look up the differences and X and Y management styles I think folks will see that we were growing and prospering under a y style of management and that today under an X-File we’re dying. Now I know it is hard for some people to accept that their style of management and guiding people has issues but in this group of people X-File is not going to work this is a creative Community this is an intubated for medicine and this is unintelligent self-driven community and our leaders need to realize that.
We had one yesterday. Band saw. Member Trip to the ER to get a hand repaired. I could now go into all the reasons why we need rules and governance to keep people from maiming (and possibly accidentally killing) themselves at the Space, but I feel as though most reasonable people understand that even one bandsaw accident like the one we had yesterday is one accident too many.
On the bandsaw injury what would have prevented? Was a person well trying was the person crying? Was was I using some substance that impart imperiled them? Instead of just writing a room we probably need to examine the accident which one we have to admit they happened and look at a solution that can reduce. We’re not going to reduce all accidents. I don’t care how many rules and regulations and training you have. Sometimes tools Miss function and sometimes people let their mind wonder you can’t stop that.
To me that each committee needs to keep a record of injuries are have injuries reported to them and there needs to be a discussion most likely at the committee level of what can be done 2 not have what could have been done to not have that injury occur
I wish night Marshalls For Milo for the Bear in here for 2 years. In the SCA Wayne recreate medieval combat and we hit each other with unpadded sticks of rattan and yes we get injuries. One of my dues is not Marshall was to report any injuries and if didn’t have to be major injuries up the line 2 my boss in the Kingdom. I think one of the few injuries I actually remember having to report was a gentleman who got his shoulder dislocated. Now that sounds like a very bad injury but after talking to him I found out that he had a history of dislocating that shoulder. It seemed that his Anatomy with such that simple things even things that he did around the house could cause him to dislocate shoulder. My report read if this gentleman continues to fight he will likely continue to dislocated shoulder. Now he actually decided to change the fighting style he did to one that would have less chance of dislocating your shoulder. I believe he even managed to do it with that style.
It is easy to have rules made but sometimes those rules are not really as useful as one might think. They end up just being rules.
As an example. some years ago my flex shaft 2 slice a piece of Amber into two pieces. I was using a small saw blade on the flex shaft. Now when I had bought those saw blades at the gym show oh, I had remark to my husband that I needed to be careful that was the speed of a flex shaft they could do some serious damage if I was not careful. The night I was cutting the Amber I was in a hurry and they flex shaft stuck in the Amber kickback and I came very close to losing the tip of my middle finger. My husband came in from work and had to take me to the ER to get the tips on back on. Now I looked at ways I could have avoided that accident one of course I could have not been in a hurry but let’s face it that is something that is not easy to really control. Because there’s going to be times for one reason or another we all get a hurry. Another would have been to have come up with some way of holding the Amber well that would have been a very hard thing to do I don’t know now with access to tools or something like Makerspace it might be possible to come up with a flexible enough kid that can hold it. The other thing would be not to use the metal solve lights. Now I can accomplish the same same with cutting into the Amber with a cut off wheel, that when it kicks back it breaks. The drawback is I lose or I lose more of my Amber which is why I had use the saw blade. And looking at it and knowing myself I realize that getting in a hurry and even sometimes getting slightly distracted is supper burning type distraction what’s going to mean that the saw blades we’re probably not something I wanted to you. I package them up and I gave them to a friend who doesn’t get distracted is easy and doesn’t have a household with multiple dogs and a husband she needs to cook bar and such. She’s also a better planner than I am so she’s less likely to be in a hurry. I still continue to cut Amber bone and on but instead of a saw blade I used a call. The type of analysis that I would think each committee needs to do of injuries in their committee area.
Maybe we are doing that but I have not seen or heard of it happening but of course I don’t get to every committee meeting. What I have seen is the word taking action to try to correct something without the analysis being made public. Let me tell you something when you make an issue public you also make people moraware when they’re in other places I tell my story because I think that it is worth telling to encourage people to be more careful when they use a flex shaft for a Dremel. We don’t often think of those tools as dangerous tools but they can be.
Anyone I thought I would explain my concern about rules and about a what I feel is a reasonable solution color.
I intend to start a new thread on reducing dangerous conditions at DMs could one of the moderators please move this post in the other post dealing with it to that thread when they can thank you very much
I disagree with this view. It is well known that training, mindfulness and safety governance programs (of which rules are indeed a part) ‘can’ and ‘do’ reduce accidents. All one has to do is look into the Occupational Safety and Health Administration history and their regulatory and governance programs, and other similar safety-related entities Worldwide.
Well, it depend on how you judge success but that is getting philosophical. Wednsday nights at 7pm we generally have a great discussion…
However, I know what you are saying but there is a point of diminishing returns with one direction of prevention. And you have to weigh the other side of the coin, when it becomes too burdensome to the results.
I understand this was a minor accident, requiring first aid treatment only.
As a person that has driven a member to the ER for an injury*, I am very impressed with the training and processes we have had since 2010. Our members as a whole do have a great sense of care for themselves and for others. And our teachers and committee members have enforced this. Awesome.
I believe our biggest accident so far was equipment failure in jewelry, when the hot wax machine exploded.
@Scott_Blevins our insurance covers members for this, yes?
*This was at the Ladybird site. A member was demonstrating the safety features of a Benchmade knife. He cut his hand deeply. required some rehab to regain full extension. It was successful.
The other major accident at Ladybird was also a self inflicted knife injury.
@Robert_Davidson How much for better insurance?
I know martial arts schools, which have a demonstrated injury rate, do cover member injuries in school and competition.
The same must be avail to us.
@Kevin researched coverage for alcohol on site, and related exposure. it was a minimal add.
Can I recommend that when we have questions needing answers from insurance agents, lawyers, contractors etc., that the designated volunteers prepare a public wide document for review by the membership beforehand and announce when the meeting date with said expert will be?
IMHumbleO, there’s too much speculation and uncertainty around expert issues that should be answered straight away with “Your question is going in the document for the Nov. 1st meeting.”
I know in some cases that experts prefer not to give written answers and keep other information confidential, but I would guess that most of our questions could and should be met with documented answers from the experts. I think it’s worth paying extra for the experts who will go the extra mile in obliging us with this.
Please help me understand if I’m being short-sided or naive with this opinion.
As someone who works with their hands in the field & a safety committee member (at work). I will tell you that a LARGE number of injuries go unreported. Training will only go so far, rules will only go so far, it is the enforcement of those rules that makes a difference.
Most of the injuries have been from complacency. They have been doing it soo long that they create bad habits. We recently had a 25 year employee die from the actions of falling off a ladder that was improperly setup. Last year we had another long time employee die from falling through a temporary structure 10 ft in the air.
Ive had friends of mine have various injuries over the past 20 years. They all said they wished they had not filed a workman’s comp claim. It would have been quicker to have them file it under their insurance to get things done. One tore a rotator cuff, it was over a year & a half to get it operated on.