[Discussion] Amiga 2000 running HVAC in Grand Rapids

Maybe the category should be Infrastructure …

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Hope they have a spare computer and interface hardware. Don’t think they will be getting factory support on either. Think about how many schools could be closed for how long if they don’t have a sufficiently fast contingency plan in place.

Sometimes things just keep going…

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In 2009, I updated a controls computer from circa 1993. The update was to XP & the newest old version of software I could get. That software was from 2004. That job was interesting.

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Maybe the category should be Infrastructure …

nope, VCC is the perfect spot for this.

Though after watching that video I’m one, impressed with what they did with it and the use of ham radios to control remote systems. And two, curious that I thought data could not be transmitted over ham?!?

Its surprising they haven’t even looked into running the software in vice and some coms port to usb adaptor on a random $50 netbook.

Probably not technically “data”. I’d guess it’s DTMF tones in the right order to fire commands on the receiving end.

Likely the same type of hack could be done as was, for the sirens here in DFW last year, with cold or hot students being the result as opposed to a lot of confused residents.

Data can be sent. Within scope of the FCC, it can’t be encrypted, and there is limitations on band plan and bandwidth, but there are even amateur licensed channels for wifi that some equipment can access. But to me this telemetry use appears to fail the non commercial aspect.

The human factor is the key in my opinion. They can probably find old parts and random stuff to keep it working for another 30+ years if they want to. What they should be worried about is losing the person who knows the system inside and out which someone clearly does to keep it running this long. The guy in the video said “this one is from eBay” or something like that, so they’ve maintained/restored the system somewhat recently.

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Oh… echolink stuff. That’s actually kind of cool technology… What is DTMF? (dual tone multi frequency)

Gets me thinking too; that solves my air gap issues at studio 42. Just need to setup an ALOHAnet style system.

And a correction, HAM can packet CB cannot - http://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/packet-radio-on-cb.90764/

I was thinking CB.

can’t be encrypted

where in the OSI model is that encryption not allowed. IE, is that radio encryption, link, or packet or data encryption?

For example; given one has a valid setup and licenses. If they establish a connection to a base station, then vpn tunnel between two systems then ssh into another system or uses a browser to access a site over https. At which point is that considered encryption that the FCC does not allow?

Also until the past 10-15 years, Controls software wasn’t too backwards compatible or open. So it was & is expensive to update. However it looks like the public was duped unless something more urgent came up. Also it is more likely that if it’s not working, it is probably in hand. I see that a lot where people don’t understand the controls and throw them in hand.

Modbus RTU, Lon & now BACnet pushed for software to be more open. Modbus limitations were the maximum values, usually 65,536 or -32,767-32,768. So you had to be careful of how you wrote your programs.

LON, it’s issues were cost of credits. My understanding is you buy so many credits then it costs you to download the controller.

BACnet made things even more open. There are still Proprietary BACnet objects but it has true open source objects to where anyone with a BACnet explorer gets on a network, usually 485, can read & command BACnet objects.

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Any/all layers. In the US, all amateur transmissions must be free from any encryption. Data may of course be encoded by different methods, but it is expected that the encoding scheme is public knowledge.

In ways, kind of a shame. I believe in EMEA, there is work to make block chain transactions more robust through amateur links, however that is a no go here.

encoding scheme is public knowledge

not to dive into semantics but rsa and aes standards are public knowledge at this point so it seems a little backwards to me that things like ssh over aprs or even secured passwords would be “illegal” to use even in a test environment or for private use.

In either case this thread is quickly forking and I’m interested in knowing more about this blockchain transactions through amateur links but maybe on a different thread.

I may have found the original software they were using:

Search for AVT v5.50 on Amiga software archive - Black Belt Systems