Absolutely and you have to have that in a place where members can easily see it, opt-in and if we have privacy and T&C we have display terms for sms that for carriers to approve. Also with text messaging SMS system with the carriers is a process to get setup and verified we’re not spam. It’s a pain iand don’t know if we’d get approved for it for our small number of sends. Just saying this from experience of a recent process and we’re still waiting on approval 3 months later.
Volunteer hours seems to be the hardest part of this equation. Lots of tech solutions doesn’t remove the labor burden.
I propose contracting this out.
Storage is on a 30 day calendar basis, not rolling.
Bring in a crew on the 2nd and 4th Wednesday of the month. (Or the 15th and 30th). Designate every other storage slot as a 15th or 30th slot.
Anything remaining in the allocated slots on the day stated will be thrown away.
Anyone abusing the hired group immediately gets banned.
A small number of people will shuffle material between bins. I’m not super worried about it personally. If there’s space anyway, then sure why not, but at that point most of the alternate cycle spots will be filled.
If you really don’t like the shuffling problem, go to a once a month cycle and say all storage spots will be emptied on the 30th, storage initiates again on the 1st.
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I would agree. Days that are consistent makes the best use of time for volunteers and get more help in the tasks.
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Got a cost estimate on that?
This is true. It’s why I mentioned best effort eviction dates post-expiration - I expect Logistics will meet weekly/biweekly/whatever’s convenient to process evictions post-expiry while still giving members the flexibility of a dynamic term.
The TL;DR of this is a user will realize at least the established term in all cases, with eviction potentially happening at any time afterwards.
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Certainly makes sense, and considering all of the bullshittery observed over the past decade, this decision should come as no surprise to many members.
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Also more rigid for members using the storage. Rolling allows confusion. Calendar reduces logistic effort but increases user frustration. In this case favoring logistic team makes sense.
I don’t. But I would guess <$1000/ month at a high, probably closer to ~600. I think members would agree that they jointly enjoy >$1000 of value out of storage in the space so it seems like a justifiable trade regardless.
If this is an issue the cost could certainly be offset by charging. $10-$15 per slot would probably be palatable and cover at least half the cost. Charging for a spot is a problem easily solved by technology without incurring increased repeat labor time.
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From what I recall, at least one prior automation effort produced a printed ticket with dates prominently displayed. I suspect that @jsnowfreedman’s effort was similar - likely also with a portal the user could log into, email reminders.
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Yep…and a printed receipt for you and the space as well. Even had text messaging, although I still don’t love that idea really… It does get the best response though.
Part of me kind of feels like it would be easier to go on set schedules… Maybe with two choices for people that work different times (like a Wednesday to Wednesday, and Saturday to Saturday or something?) A large part of me also feels like we should go without storage for a couple months and run some polls and stuff to figure out what people want, are willing to do for it, etc.
Maybe a controversial opinion, but part of me feels like it’s reasonable to require that members put a certain amount of help into the space each quarter/month/whatever to keep their membership fully active. I’m not really opposed to having a third-party service come in but at the same point that’s money I feel better spent on getting maintenance contracts for certain machines or something… (At 1000$/mo, we could buy a new full sized thunder laser each year.) I guess the relationship between members and volunteering vs paying a third party somewhat depends on what members want out of DMS.
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Just double checking does this rule only apply to the project storage in woodshop but not the ikea bins in 3d fab?
Hannah
Only applies to project storage in the south warehouse. The personal storage bins are unchanged.
To be clear, I would also prefer to have this be a function of volunteerism. I’m just wondering if the practical solution is to remove that. I also have no idea what the state of the budget is, and if $1k/month is even viable. Probably not given the need to finish expansion.
I have hundreds of e-ink displays for a project we decided to outsource and can see about a donation.
In the alternative, we also have that outsourced solution and it only costs few bucks per tag and the infrastructure (for updating tags) is off-the-shelf (pun intended).
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I would like to help with the ePD prototype. What kind of displays do you have - do they support OpenEpaperLink?
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They are just bare eInk displays with no brains. I’d drive them with an ESP32 or STM32.
The off-the-shelf are by Hanshow. That would be the lowest friction solution.
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FYI: @rlisbona has been working on a prototype around a product called Solum that would be used for e-ink remote display use cases around the space.
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I believe several things are true and apply here:
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While storage rules are generally simple and clear, storage enforcement has been spotty. Spotty enforcement results in unwritten rules and users trained to rely on reality rather than rules. Say what you want about written rules prevailing, unwritten rules are part of DMS reality and most life.
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Spotty enforcement is the result of the simple reality of the limitations of volunteer labor - people volunteer when they have time. This is further impacted by the fact that most folks are conflict averse, and any enforcement action is a recipe for conflict.
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Enforcement needs to be consistent to be effective and perceived as fair.
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The 80/20 rule applies. Most users want to be good citizens, 20% of the users cause 80% of the issues, either through distraction, simple carelessness, or outright neglect and malice. Stuff happens, sometimes life intrudes on the best of intentions.
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The situation will not and can not improve until volunteers are substantially removed from the enforcement loop. See 1, 2, and 3 above.
I recommend that:
Storage access and enforcement be entirely automated - including:
- User reminder and violator notification (with a great deal of redundancy and backup.)
- Locking storage and preventing access by violators.
- Granting initial extensions to responsive violators subject to volunteer review. A volunteer team can review and extend or limit grace periods with a vote of three or more agreeing.
- Eliminate purgatory (locked storage functions as purgatory, material in violation is purged directly from storage to trash, resale, or auction.
- Enforcement of temporary and permanent bans on violator access to storage.
I recognize this is a BIG project, but others have substantially solved this problem and we should be able to reduce our initial effort by borrowing from them.
I’ve been working on cabinet interlocks and have many of the hardware issues covered, and some efforts to improve potential implementations.
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I am having trouble with DMS committing to remind and notify. If part of the rules and process is setting a responsibility for reminders, and notification on DMS, we are opting in to excuses. Even if it is automated, it still leaves opening for excuses.
The storage space is open, like a parking space. Violate the rules, and you receive a ticket, or a towing.
I Think a part of the rules should be:
By using storage, you acknowledge you understand it is for the designated time. You will have the space cleared by the end of that time. DMS is not responsible to remind, or notify you at the end of that time. If items remain in the storage area after the end date, the are considered abandoned, and will be disposed of.
We are adults. We have all kinds of reminder capabilities at our disposal. This is also short term storage, for projects currently being worked on. If your working on it, your not forgetting.
- Granting initial extensions to responsive violators subject to volunteer review. A volunteer team can review and extend or limit grace periods with a vote of three or more agreeing.
I agree with this. It still keeps the responsibility on the member.
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I agree, but it removes the vast majority of the basis for the excuses (and hurt feelings) that are already used aplenty.
If we automated the process, reminders and notifications are easy. They won’t be perfect, but they go a long way toward the perception of going out of our way to be fair. Stuff will still happen.
Nothing is perfect and what I propose will not eliminate the problem. Even the current closure won’t, but it really reduces it. 
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It can be both…make sure storage users under they are responsible for removing their stuff, with or without reminder, and do the right thing and send them reminders.
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You can automate the administrative process to include policies, consent, and reminders but you can’t automate the eviction process. This is why I’m advocating for user-friendly dynamic terms and volunteer-friendly best effort removal post term expiration. All other things being equal, users are gauranteed at least [term duration] use of storage while volunteers can meet on a schedule - or when convenient - to process evictions.
Even if we contract this out somehow, the organization will need to clearly indicate what’s to be removed in advance. And even then I can envision those contractors being waylaid by … distraught … members.
A points system would address this - a user that’s been efficient with storage but suffers a Life Happens™ event should have the points for the occasional extension without Logistics holding court.
I’m for this. Purgatory reduces the time investment of offsite, but not the double-handling while also introducing the obligation to be available at random to retrieve items. Outright disposal is probably the best option.