Cold Cut saw blade charge introduced


#21

As a user, this would make me want to use the saw less and the band saw more. Otherwise, I face a surprise $75 charge which may have actually been precipitated by a prior user.

Alternatively, I’d want to bring in my own consumables (blade) and swap it in. Is that allowed?


#22

we’re following the same model as woodshop for the SawStop. It doesn’t seem to have discouraged anyone from using it.

yes, certainly. of course we expect the original to be swapped back when done. I know it is something I shouldn’t have to mention, but I shouldn’t have to keep mentioning to put tools and tooling back where it belongs either.

Cheers!


#23

Comparing this policy to the saw stop policy is a false equivalence.

The saw stop fires only for the person actually making a mistake. No chance that the user before you was the one that “broke” it, but you got stuck with the replacement. Just can’t happen.

This policy is a bad one. As Zach notes, this will discourage use of the saw.


#24

Agreed. The wood shop only charges for that blade if it triggers because of user error on the current operator.

If the blade breaks whilst I use the cold cut due to existing damage but not operations error, and i’m responsible for the cost regardless, that’s something that generally doesn’t happen in other committees. It’s a deterrent for using the equipment in general.

Any caveats when swapping the blade on the unit? Got a link to the blade sources?


#25

I know you are all talking about the general case, but in the latest specific case, the fact that I powered down, then powered back up and did not specifically reclamp was what precipitated the breakage.

That is on me, not an earlier user.

Back Story
Another Maker stopped me while I was cutting and I shut down due to a class going on nearby. Further brief discussion made is clear that finishing my <2 minute cut would be a minor inconvenience, so I restarted, but didn’t think through that the clamping was canceled due to power shutoff/restart. I was trying to hurry to minimize the inconvenience and didn’t think it through.


#26

Does anyone have a link to the blades we are buying? The Machineshop wiki doesn’t have it and I don’t see the blade listed in the manual (which covers multiple saw models in the 350 series, and is not searchable since it is a scan). The Kalamazoo website doesn’t show the 350 models for reference.

@Team_Machine_Shop

-Jim


#27

Coldsawbladestore.com
https://coldsawbladestore.com/product-category/m2-hss-cold-saw-blades/page/2/


#28

what size blade and arbor?


#29

coldsawbladestore.com From a previous order:

They seem to have a standard arbor as I recall
https://coldsawbladestore.com/product/350-x-2-5-x-40-m2-hss-saw-blade/


#30

I vote Walter continues to be member of any committee for which he is listed.


#31

List as (spiritu) In spirit.


#32

Is machine shop hurting for money? Does your budget not cover breakages? How many blades do you go through in a month?


#33

We are not hurting but yes Based on the monthly stipend - more is going out than is going in. while the classes we teach bring in money, it is impossible to budget for new purchases if it has to be used for replacements. The cold cut is not a regular breakage item although we had two in as many months and it uses a lot of coolant. Bandsaw blades don’t last a week due to abuse. Endmills and drill bits pile up in the broken box either burned up or broken due to abuse. Properly used, an endmill should last hundreds of parts. many seem to be single use items. whatever people are doing they are destroying them. No skin off their nose since they’re ‘free’. Since MS has no revenue stream other than classes, And since teachers are far and few between that stream can easily dry up. This is part of a long term strategy for mitigating any losses, and putting more emphasis on the users to act like the tools/tooling were their own. Which may end up being the case if we are forced to start charging for drill bits and endmills and/or simply carry only a limited number vs the bulk we carry now.

I knew this would be an unpopular proposition which is why it was discussed at length in the committee meeting and this particular item was voted on unanimously - by the members who are actually the users of the saw. I announced it here as a point of information. TALK opinion is basically of zero value. As you know - being active in the committee and voting gives you a voice. This was not a ‘dictator’ decision. The committee voted it so. I am of course the front man for the committee and answerable to the board. If there is any real concern on this I am certainly available for discussion. But as the person responsible for the fiscal healthiness of the committee I have to come up with a plan to ensure it is sustainable. cheers!


#34

Why do you have an account, in that case? Seems like a waste of time for you to even be on here, or respond to anyone in this thread.


#35

Unfortunately most consumables live very short lives, essentially single use. Even the tools themselves become consumables with the abuse they see. Unless you make members bring their own bits, blades and end mills, DMS will continue to subsidize bad behavior.


#36

you left out that:
It is a point of information. and NO. I have no intention of arguing on TALK. that is what the committee meetings are for. All are welcome to attend as always.


#37

I really feel it is time to change that.


#38

As a non-machine shopper, I think the error/point of contention was comparing this to the saw stop policy to justify it. It’s fine if your committee wants to implement this, but it isn’t the same as the saw stop


#39

Your point is taken, thank you.
It has been implemented


#40

I was one of those committee members that voted in this saw blade charge.

I believe that the possibility of experiencing “unjust” breakage charges is being over blown in this case:

First the saw blade is of very hard and brittle material; think of it as almost a glass blade. To break it specific mis-use is needed. One would have to be extremely talented, and admittedly there are some really talented folks at DMS, to misuse the blade in a way that it wouldn’t break right away, but would on a subsequent user putting it to prudent use.

Second, in a concession to the very unlikely case of “unjust” breakage, the hapless victim is only expected to pay half the replacement cost. The chances of a given individual experiencing this twice at this tool in a life time of membership is incalculably small, so no person will ever pay for an entire blade replacement due to unlucky spontaneous breakages.

Still, there is some benefit to the policy:

First, it may encourage some persons to consider the well being of the equipment they are about to use. That may lead to longer blade life. If longer life starts leading to lowered replacement costs on a few trouble prone items then the machine shop will be able to maintain more liberal policies toward furnishing drills, cutters, inserts and taps, perhaps, even buy additional appurtenances that may improve member experience.

Second, a number of members have quickly paid for the replacement of what broke on them; fault or not. So while the charge may be higher on the person who would not have offered to pay for the replacement; it could now be lower for the member who readily admits to breakage and was expecting to pay the whole replacement cost. One time a member broke the evolution saw blade by mistakenly using it on steel; he quickly admitted to it and ponied up the whole replacement cost. Well, now there is a rule that says he may rightfully pay only about half the replace cost (currently in the case of the cold saw though). Although, this member would still insist in paying the whole cost, the point is that a neophyte could make a mistake and learn from it at half price following committee rules. The previous lack of a guide line left some members, perhaps, thinking that they owed MS the whole price.