Class No-Shows (most un-excellent!)

That!


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Haha … I’m still waiting for my refund from about 9 months ago! So not a good idea.
( edit: not really waiting, I chalked it up to; “We are an all volunteer org, so give us a break”. Plus, it was only $5. :wink:)

I suppose it was really the principle of the situation that bugged me most, not the $'s, obviously.

One last funny thing about is as well. I sent an email asking to just credit it to my account and never received a response. Then about 3 months later I got an email that the refund would be processed. That was about 4 months ago. Lol.

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I am going to say this again, we are not HS or a job, Folks pay for classes in college
and then drop out of a class and those cost a LOT more than a few dollars

Yes it is disappointing for a class to not make, If you are driving a long distance, then
maybe you want to offer more than one classs that day,

The problem with no shows in hard to get into classes is different and we might could help
that, by having a waiting list, Maybe we should try asking folks that were no shows, what happened

Maybe there is a problem with timing and traffic with folks leaving workk or other,

I dislike the concept of penalizing folks, talk about what is NOT excellent!

I would like to know about this situation. I don’t remember it at all but interested in making it right if possible.

As a note to others, you need to be specific in what class you are referring to. I need the class ID to look it up in the system with any degree of accuracy. We now have hundreds of classes a month.

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Don’t worry about. …

We agree to disagree that it’s “working”…I am more than happy to try and find a better working solution once I know what kind of data we are able to gather.

@Cairenn_Day Yes, people may decide to sacrifice their $25 or whatever not to show but people who are being unexcellent in that case are only penalizing themselves. Solutions have been given to make sure the idigent members and excellent ones who follow through are not out a penny AND teachers aren’t being abused. I respect you as a person and as a contributer to the space, but you’ve admitted to being a chronic no show yourself so quite frankly whatever you feel the most threatened by seems to be a fabulous idea since the current system is so inept it can’t intice you out a chair.

Some folks charge a fee to help discourage no shows, they will
lose some folks, I cant afford more than maybe one of those a month

With a long drive that might be more reasonable for some folks.
Since I only live about 20 miles and 20 min away and my problem
is getting here I am goind to offer moe classes and expect not all of
they to make

I guess you would have sacrificed several hours of weaving the
weaving for a lecture class. I didnt and if you thinks that makes
mes a bad person well, that is your opinion

I don’t think it makes you a bad person but I do think it discourages that teacher from doing another.

Setting the token systems aside and causing finance a kefluffle what about establishing an additional teir of honorarium that can be applied for?

Training tier classes pay out regardless of attendance with comittee chair/review board approval. The money to comittee can be negated if we are worried it’ll be abused.
Series teir (teachers with set # classes per month) who have appropriate advance registration but disqualify due to no shows can apply for an honorarium to be paid anyway.

Based on the numbers from Alex and looking at the old calendar it seems like there wouldn’t be too much additional work to establish that protocol both in calendar and in our current work flow

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I like the @MrsMoose idea.

I like the idea of ENCOURAGING teaches to teach and Students to attend.

Instructors “unlock” better honorarium for teaching a set number of classes a month AND doing the needed paperwork AND getting good class reviews. Perhaps class vouchers too. Shift the basic honorarium to $35 or $40. The people scheduling early and often would tier up +$5 a month up to $60. Then drop down at the same speed (-$5 per month.). This becomes a bookkeeping challenge with someone having to approve the pay level per instructor.

Logistics (@dpgalla) was talking about this concept for Logistics special projects. (ie People helping redo the Interactive Classroom floor would get “paid” with internal credits. These are useful for classes or t-shirts or mugs.)

Might be a useful conversation to have about a DMS token system.

Are tokens/class vouchers transferrable?

Are class vouchers valued at “a class” or would you need to collect a bunch of class vouchers to be in the HAAS Mill via vouchers. What is the value of a class vouchers.

Do tokens/class vouchers expire? (I think some should.)

What would be a valid DMS token? Not able to be counterfeited. (This is DMS, people are clever.)

Finally, are we better off skipping the voucher/token thing and PAY people in American Dollars. Let them spend them as they will.

This horse has been reduced to a pulp, so here are some fresh ponies:

  1. Most of the problems with no-shows are likely:
    a. Number-limited classes.
    b. Classes with insufficient mass appeal.
  2. In the event of a no-show, an announcement over the paging system will solve the problem if the class has appeal.
  3. Instructors depending on honorarium should choose subjects which have broad appeal and do not require a small class size.
  4. Instructors should avoid a cancellation deadline whenever possible.
    a. Always request the 30 minute late registration (you cannot do this if you have a cancellation deadline.)
    b. I believe an instructor has the power to cancel the registration of a no-show. Doing so will free up a slot for a standby student to late register.
  5. I print the registration list at the last minute before the class and pass it around, asking students to check off their name. This gives me a lasting record of who was there.
  6. I do not remember for sure from the last class I taught and I have slept since then, but you must click “Save” after marking attendance. This has apparently tripped up many people.
  7. Regular members are not told which are honorarium classes, non-honorarium classes and events. They do not know which ones are critical to either attend or cancel.
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I would hate to see additional fees or punitive actions, because it ADDS EXTRA WORK FOR VOLUNTEERS and board members. It also adds drama, because anyone penalized may wish to discuss the penalty with the volunteers or board members that are handling logistics.

I currently have two threads in electronics “testing the waters” for interest in classes. If there isn’t enough interest, there won’t be a class, so I doubt I will teach a class that fails to bring in three people.

But I also have a pretty straightforward idea about how to punish folks without having a stated punishment in place.
Simply refuse to help makers that give you a bad time.
I have helped dozens of people with electronics projects at the space.
There are also a few folks I would not help with anything.
That approach allows you to teach the prisoners dilemma outside of class!

It is a little more effort to poll your intended audience in advance of submitting a class, for interest and schedule availability, but it will likely avoid having any classes where no shows make a difference.

I don’t even know that we need to change the honorarium for the book keepers. It can just be a simple addition to the system in place instead of altering it.

  1. Teach a class with 3 people, $50
  2. Tool training classes can be approved by committees and have honorarium paid for the class regardless of attendance from committee funds…or board funds with a possible limiting
  3. Teach 4 classes in a month, apply for frequent flier honorarium. Absolutely make it contingent on submitting roll and following all the teacher actions requested by the board.
    Option A: this is limited to the amount of classes taught times the standard $50 and you apply for that amount. (So if I teach four and two make then I’d be eligible for $100)
    Option B: We decide having those frequent teachers is something we value so it’s a flat fee of say $100. If I teach four and none make its not the end of the world. If I teach four and all make I’m given a carrot for continuing exceptional quality and high demand things

Yes, this appears to be the case. So if someone has failed to show up for your class, you are perfectly capable of preventing them from signing up/taking any class you offer in the future. This seems to be all of the ‘punishment’ that seems needed or warranted for failing to show up.

The fact is that the system we currently have just works. The evidence of this is the dozens of honorarium classes we have each month, along with the difficulty of reserving a class during prime hours. We don’t need a more complicated system. If your classes aren’t getting three registered attendees, I suggest the problem is in one of two areas. The class is being offered too frequently (hence people think I can take it next time) or the class subject doesn’t interest enough of our members.

In my experience, the former is the most likely since our members have a broad interest base. In either case, I suggest that we stop trying to fix a system that isn’t broken and think about how to work within that system to gain what you want–honorariums.

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Maybe a dead horse. Still I’m comitted to attempting a palatable solution and bringing it before the board ASAP.Text

Most of the problems with no-shows are likely:
a. Agreed, but that’s not avoidable
b. Perhaps? People don’t know until after they’ve been hosed even with interest checks. There’s also something to be said for the bootstrapping of new sigs and programs
An announcement over the paging system will solve the problem if the class has appeal…again maybe. If the teacher even knows how to page. There’s also an issue of makers being super late and throwing fits their spot was given away
Instructors who depend on honorarium only doing mass appeal classes means we just lost 80% of “staff” and will have a huge waterfall effect on membership when they’re locked out of the tools they really want to use and cancel
Avoid a cancellation deadline whenever possible…again not possible for a huge number of the hands on classes where materials have to be prepped or preordered.
Regular members are not told which are honorarium classes, non-honorarium classes and events. They do not know which ones are critical to either attend or cancel…I see this as irrelevant unless it’s going to become acceptable now to cancel on a class that hasn’t made

If the class is a requirement for tools that will have a ‘huge waterfall’ effect, they are by definition classes in high demand. The main reason such classes are not making a minimum of three then is that they are being offered too frequently. Cut back, and as an instructor cancel anyone from the class who has failed to show up for one of your classes previously. None of this requires a change to the current working system,

Committees should endeavor to make the instructor whole for the occasional honorarium miss since they have been getting the $50 “match” from prior classes. Maybe this can be one way to help solve the problem.

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There are some members who rely on income from honorariums and teach many classes each month. They are already being accused of “abusing” the honorarium system. This would compound the problem.

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I am not advocating cancelling a class that did not get three registrants. An instructor should plan on teaching the class if even one person shows.

I was saying that if a student knows honorarium is involved, he may make extra effort to attend or cancel if he cannot.

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I was thinking that maybe the system be enhanced to allow each instructor to keep an automatic “block” list instead of having to manually reject repeat offenders.

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Then you’d be an advocate for option A since nobody would make above and beyond what they’d make anyway. I would wager few if any of those people exist and it’s not like there’s a check and balance missing if that is the case…nor does their motivation for accepting honorarium change the fact that 80% of teachers want it.