Is Cermark something that Laser can keep as a paid consumable? Most folks wouldn’t use much or that often, and that’s a chunk of change just to buy more than you need?
What do you think would be a good way to measure/track how much was used?
@John_Marlow Could base it on the square inches of the piece you’re spraying.
Yeah…that!!! …
We don’t even supply wood or acrylic. I don’t really see stocking it being doable. I believe cermark also goes bad over time after opening, but I may be thinking of something else we were using for testing coatings.
that’s a tough one to measure. The LMM-14 I use is in an aerosol can so it will depend how well and how conservative someone sprays to figure out how much is used. The cans had a big problem with the stuff leaking out but they have changed the can design and I think it’s solved. The more liquid version can be brushed on or diluted with alcohol for use with a spray gun. both have a decent shelf life. The liquid could probably be divided up into smaller containers and weighed out by the gram but I for one don’t want to be the one having to do that.
Well, here’s an idea. Not exactly what you had in mind, but it might work.
What if someone had a class on lasering metal (brass, aluminum) - bought one can of Cermark 14, split the cost among the (oh, let’s arbitrarily say 6) participants as a material fee, and let each person bring (again making up a number because I don’t know how far it goes) one square foot of (specifically designated) metal? It would have to be a class for people already checked out on the laser. People would have to do their prework and bring their artwork and correct pieces of metal. But it would be one way to get a metal engraving without having to buy an entire can of Cermark; and without the Space being on the hook for monitoring an expensive, elusive consumable.
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@nicksilva why not just weight the can before and after and pay per gram used? Scales are already used for 3D printing materials so it shouldn’t be too hard to do it in a similar fashion.
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I think it’s moot. I don’t think Laser is going to get into the business of stocking and vending cermark.
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Nailed it.
I’m not chair anymore though.
Why not buy a small jar for yourself and go nuts marking all the metal things you own?
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LOL…where do you get a SMALL bottle of Cermark? I’m finding $30 for a 25 gram bottle for metal and $45 a can for the stuff for glass…but that’s off eBay and lord knows what you’re really getting 1/2 the time from eBay. So unless you’re a business, it’s probably not worth the personal investment of the average Maker doing personal stuff.
If the committee won’t support that, maybe we’ll have to get together ourselves and do a group buy and split it up.
@patrickpleez1 what say you? Laser really has no consumable expenses outside of machine maintenance. I’m with Chris, do a class on it! Then after the class, you get the key/combo to the lockbox with the marking supplies in it. It would control access and make sure that people using the consumable have been trained in responsible and appropriate usage. If it comes up short, you’re only looking at the folks with access and not the whole Membership. Let class fees & honorarium pay for the supplies.
Split and moved to a new thread, as requested.
An enterprising maker MIGHT buy a bottle, then sell it off to compatriots in any way they determine useful.
(I’m not advocating this; I’m just saying I’ve seen this done for other similar things, where the minimum purchase is WAAAY more than many consumers in the specific space desire–this is called “demand”, in a micro-level…)
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Sounds like you found a small bottle. $30 isn’t that much to spend for a single person on a project.
Managing the amounts used by a member on a single use situation would not be worth the time spent having to manage the payments for the fraction of a bottle.
then let’s consider having to cover the fees for what will likely end up being sub $1 charges.
And now let’s add the expiration date to the bottle, the use cases are so low for this that it’s almost guaranteed that the bottle would go bad before it was all used up which leaves the laser committee at a loss.
Next it will be that we don’t have the right SKU of cermark and laser should buy a plethora of different types that are going to need to be micro managed and then have them expire.
Traditionally laser hasn’t ever provided consumables other than the laser tubes. If the committee was ever going to get into the business of it we should probably start with triple layer plywood and some basic 1/8 acrylics. But even then it doesn’t sound worth micromanaging with volunteers.
We spend our volunteer time and money trying to keep the lasers maintained and upgraded as opposed to trying to chase down fees and camera footage of someone using a tiny consumable they may or may not have paid for.
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Right, so I blow $30 bucks for a bottle for god knows who on eBay to use on a handful of things and throw it away when it expires instead of the cmte buying a $30 bottle, doing a class on it, recouping their money through honorarium/class fees and inspiring a several people to do a lot more things with what they have on hand. Anybody experienced/knowledgable could teach a class on it and do the same thing…even if everyone divvies up the bottle at the end of class…so a class with a group buy component. I’d pay $10 for a class and to have extra product to play with later. @talkers @nicksilva You guys interested in something like this?
If it’s used in such minute amounts as @PearceDunlap said, using less than $1’s worth on a project, then no, it probably wouldn’t involve camera time or chasing people down because most likely the loss wouldn’t be noticed anyway unless it was rampant theft and if there are classes on it, then it’s already pretty much paid for anyway. It also means if I chance of me buying a $30 btl off eBay to use maybe $5 worth of it before it expires, then I have to say, it’s probably not something I’ll every buy. It makes no sense to invest in that kind of quantity for the average person unless they are really into personal expression on metal things. If I was going to do a 100 of something that’s different, but for something just to try, probably not.
So, @PearceDunlap, nobody said you had to personally take this on, or demanded a buy in of all 31 flavors of Cermark as you predict will happen, or assumed people are going to steal it, and if we only ever do what we traditionally have done, we will not advance one lick. I understand if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it…but there are a lot more Members who would use the Lasers if we were more experienced with what all we can do with them. Sharing the cost of tools and consumables across the community of Members is half of what I think DMS was about. The other half is sharing the knowledge and experience to use them responsibly to make things.
Yes, I think I can safely say that all the Members in the boat with me…the USS Lacking Any Knowledge of Laser Construction or Maintenance…are VERY appreciative of the work the Laser Vols do keeping these things running as well as they do. I don’t use them as much as I would like because in a lot of ways without hands-on project classes like the ones recently taught over the holiday 
, I’m just not real comfortable with them and don’t want to damage them or waste of ton of mats reinventing the wheel. So I hope that trend in project oriented classes continues!
I start school next week so my DMS involvement will be a bit limited. It is not that difficult a process. when I get a chance I’d be happy to demonstrate it to a group. I have shown it to those who took my metal pen class. Probably won’t on this next class since the ZING is too weak to do anything right now. The Thunder is a good tool for this, but I won’t have time to do a setup and test before Friday not to mention it is always in use.
Let me see what kind of a workload school will be and I’d be happy to set something up. I have both the liquid and spray LMM-14 which I have used successfully on steel, brass and aluminum.
you used to be able to request a sample of the LMM6018 Self-adhesive tape from Cermark, but sadly it looks like they’ve discontinued that now that they are owned by Ferro. I had mixed results with the tape using a 40 watt laser and never went back to it after I used up the sample. The tape would be easier to divide up since it would be by the inch. However, there would be some waste while people learn the specific speed/power combination needed for it to work.
I’m going to try to put together a small Cermark Demystified class for February.
I just need a little laser time on the Thunder to cut a repeatable jig out first and zero in on the power and speeds necessary. When I do it,
I’ll supply the cermark (both spray and liquid types) to give people a chance to see the difference and try it on steel, aluminum and brass.
I’ll give people a chance to mark their own items so long as they are not very large. There may be a small fee to cover the cermark and laser time. cheers!
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