Bad fan motor on Honda Accord?

Automotive
#1

Not sure if this post can be used for questions like this, but here it goes.

Have a 2003 Honda Accord 4-door sedan EX. I noticed the engine was overheating a bit (temp gauge at 75% or so). I checked the engine and noticed that one of the fans at the back of the radiator was not turning (A/C was ON).

The thing is, I hit the body/case of the fan motor lightly with a hammer and it started turning. I have reproduced the same observation 5-6 times now - the fan will not turn, give it a light kick on the body/casing and it starts turning. And if I drive when both fans are turning, the engine does not seem to overheat - the temp gauge is constantly at about 45%.

I should point out that, I had the A/C compressor rebuilt a few days ago.
But looks to me that the fan motor is bad.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

#2

Alper,

Not sure if this post can be used for questions like this, but here it goes.

Actually, this question is more for the Creative Arts folks, but it’s cool here too.

I hit the body/case of the fan motor lightly with a hammer and it started turning. I have reproduced the same observation 5-6 times now - the fan will not turn, give it a light kick on the body/casing and it starts turning.

Dead spot in the electric motor - replace. (VERY common issue)

Preferably OEM from the Honda House though I have used CariD.Com for some items.

Another good place in town is McCain’s Auto Parts:

http://www.mccainsauto.com/

Good stuff at rock bottom prices - they are where a lot of garages get their parts. I have saved crazy money on A/C components, radiators, etc.

I should point out that, I had the A/C compressor rebuilt a few days ago.

In theory that should have nothing to do with it. One thing you might try first is to make sure the connector to the fan motor is good and not intermittent. It might not have seated all the way when the A/C was worked on and hitting the motor might temporarily make the electrical connection touch, but it sounds like the motor.

Others can weigh in on this.

JAG “R-134a As a Dessert Topping” MAN

P.S. The temp gauge at 75% is not a bit, that’s a LOT. Sounds like it’s running at 230 F + which puts excessive thermal stress on the engine and other parts. Should run at more like 182 - 195 F. In an emergency, you can “dump the heater” (switch the interior temp control all the way to hot with the blower motor at full blast to use the heater core as an auxiliary radiator) but it is damned uncomfortable in the summer time and you should fix this ASAP.

Also, use an engine scanner to verify the actual coolant temp as the gauges can lie to you. (my Nissan was overheating at 220 F, but showed “normal” on the stock instrument gauge) I really hate how auto manufacturers have dumbed down the indicators for most cars. Remember oil pressure GAUGES, ammeters, voltmeters, etc.?

Oh, and check your oil level too as a lot of cooling is done by the engine oil. A few quarts low can make a substantial difference.

#3

I agree with Jagman. After checking the connector, I’d spring for a new fan motor. Take a look at rockauto.com or hit up the local Autozone. Spending $50-200 for a new fan motor (and likely fan, as it could come as an assembly) is far cheaper than a $1000-2000 engine when it overheats and warps the head/blows a head gasket or seizes due to the temps.

I might also check the electric fan’s thermostat (or coolant thermostat since it might be driven by the ECM/PCM), but since you said it started when you tapped lightly on the case, it is unlikely to be the problem here.

#4

Def needs a fan motor - McCains if a great source for AC parts. They buy many of their auto parts from the giant wholesaler I used to work for.
I’d suggest going with a brand name motor for longevity and not an autozone “white box” el cheapo.

The main reason it doesn’t overheat whilst driving at highway speeds is due to the air rushing through the radiator / heat transfer. Low speed driving or stop and go is where you need both fans in operative condition especially with the air conditioning on in 90 plus temps.

In the event you find the car running hot and you cannot safely turn the engine off - you should turn off the air conditioning and turn on the heater full blast - this will often buy you enogh time to move to safety and turn the engine off. The heater core is just a small “radiator” inside the car but can be used in an emergency to aid in helping cool the engine before having an experience like ZMETZING described above.

#5

Thanks for the replies.

I will check the connector, oil level (oil changed week ago but still), etc.

One question though:
Since one of the fan motors will not turn on unless I turn the A/C on so that the fans are engaged and lightly tap the one fan that is problematic, is it a good idea to do that before I start driving? I mean, I think if I do not turn the A/C on and tap the fan motor and start the problem fan turning, and start driving and the engine heats up and the fans try to kick in for cooling, I think the bad fan will not engage and I will end up with only one fan trying to help with the cooling. (Was it too confusing? :smile:)

Should I turn the A/C on and tap the fan motor so that it is on before I start driving, or should I just leave the A/C off and drive away (keep an eye on the temp gauge)?

Thanks again!

#6

Which fan is the problematic one? the Right (passenger side) or the left (driver’s side)?

I’d strongly suggest replacing the faulty fan as soon as possible - driving with the ac on to keep them running is a risk you take if the faulty fan fails completely. This summer heat and the added heat load of the ac can turn into a major expense.

#7

It is the left (driver’s side). What would be the difference?

Btw, I realize I should avoid driving like this and have it fixed ASAP. My question was for when driving for absolute musts or to a mechanic at the very least.

Thanks!

#8

Alper,

Tom and Zach are correct in fixing this ASAP, but you need to identify which is the cooling fan, and which is the A/C (also known as the condenser) fan. Get both fans running and then shut off the A/C just long enough to identify the fan that stops running. Is it the same one that you have to bang to get it going? Then that is your AC / Condenser fan.

Or you can use this diagram to make sure:

The radiator fan is on the passenger side and the A/C fan is driver’s side. (you just answered)

Call McCain’s - 13566 Floyd Cir, Dallas, TX 75243 972.669.0669

and make sure they have the part in stock and then go pick it up - PREFERABLY IN ANOTHER VEHICLE to minimize the chance of further overheating. What is also a decent idea if you have the luxury is to pull the bad fan out to match it with the new part which is another reason to use an auxiliary vehicle. It isn’t too bad of a job, but typically you have to wrestle the fan shroud out and the connector can be a pain to disconnect.

One problem I have seen is that the electrical mating of the connectors can oxidize and start heating up, to the point to where I have had the connector housing melt.

If the price is cheap enough, you MAY want to consider replacing both fans as 12 years is awhile and if one has gone, the other may not be far behind. Just take photos beforehand and label your bolts to ease re-assembly. (I use a plastic parts container with masking tape and a marker - do it in the order of dissassembly and then work backwards)

(and likely fan, as it could come as an assembly)

True - Honda fans often come as an assembly.

(oil changed week ago but still)

NEVER trust someone else with your oil level, fluids, tire pressure, etc. - ALWAYS verify it yourself. I lost an engine because David McDavid Acura (the first Acura dealer in the U.S.) did not check this properly even after I brought back the car for the 1,000 mile “checkup”. They made some strong concessions, but I will be goddamned before they ever touch another vehicle of mine.

Also make sure your coolant overflow tank is up to level. If you have to drive the car, remember the heater dump trick that Tom and I mentioned. It has saved me several times, but the one thing it will not patch for long is you lose coolant from a leak. Then it may just buy you enough time to find a good “ditch-out” location. And if you can do this in the morning before it gets too hot, all the better.

JAG “Late Night Honda Repair DJ” MAN

#9

Appreciate the help guys.

@JAGMAN thanks, it is the AC/condenser fan indeed, then.
Does this fan help with the cooling of the engine at all? Would the fan not engaging be the culprit for the engine overheat I experienced last night? If not, I might have another issue going on. It was the only time I observed the overheating and the only thing I noticed was the AC/condenser fan being off while the other fan was on; the temp gauge never went up more than 50% mark (I had to drive the car today and I turned the A/C on and tapped the problematic fan so that it started to turn, etc., etc.)

Also, hey, I will post car problem messages in the Creative Arts forum from now on :smile:

Sorry to hear about the engine you lost. Good advice to check the oil levels, etc. after any servicing.

#10

Alper,

Does this fan help with the cooling of the engine at all?

While it is designed to cool the A/C condenser, that condenser is directly in front of the radiator so the temperature of the airflow channel affects both. If you have the A/C on, that puts more a bit more load on the engine but the real issue is that the condenser pre-heats the air going into the radiator because it is hot, while your evaporator core is cold. A/C works by heat exchange through differential pressure - if you cool one area, then another area must get hotter by the laws of thermodynamics.

And if you have hotter air blowing over the radiator, it will not cool as efficiently.

As Tom explained, when you are at idle, you are almost completely dependent on the fans for proper airflow. (convection)

So by your related observations of when the temp gauge did climb and the obvious dead spot in the motor, you must replace the obvious “smoking gun” component first before moving on to other possible issues.

It was the only time I observed the overheating and the only thing I noticed was the AC/condenser fan being off while the other fan was on; the temp gauge never went up more than 50% mark (I had to drive the car today and I turned the A/C on and tapped the problematic fan so that it started to turn, etc., etc.)

That’s great.

It will probably only improve moving forward…

Oh wait… in what direction does time flow again?

No, it will only get worse until the motor dies completely, or it will die temporarily while you are distracted and then you can kiss your head gasket goodbye. Ironically, that is exactly what started my engine debacle - the Acura dealership started by replacing a blown head gasket from overheating and then I wound up losing the engine.

So does investing $120+ for a fan sound like a better stopgap for you?

Sorry to hear about the engine you lost.

The Service Manager was sorrier as it became his personal 1.6 Liter suppository.

Also, hey, I will post car problem messages in the Creative Arts forum from now on

Nicole can turn the bad fan motor into an art project - use watercolors and go nuts.

Good advice to check the oil levels, etc. after any servicing.

You learn to become mistrustful with age. It is also a good policy with rental or other borrowed vehicles.

JAG “The Road Warrior” MAN

#11

When you are driving, it isn’t such a problem as more air is forced over the radiator by driving than by the fans.

You can gat the fan in the housing from a junkyard cheap, and easier to replace the whole assembly rather than removing the fan motor by itself.

1 Like
#12

not sure on the logic of using a junkyard fan in this application…

3 Likes
#13

not sure on the logic of using a junkyard fan in this application…

I completely agree with Tom on this. I used to source parts from junkyards, but there are several problems with that:

  1. They are typically located in inconvenient places (time and gas in driving)

  2. Often cannot guarantee inventory (or even the right part)

  3. Spend a lot of time driving and walking to the car to pull it out (if you have to pick and pull)

  4. No guarantee of how long the part will last since it is used

  5. Crappy return policy - particularly on electrical parts (most places are like that, but will often exchange for an obviously defective part as long as it is clean / just plugged in for testing)

  6. Unpleasant customer service in some cases. I have actually had the experience of shopping for a trim switch for a Honda Accord and called a junkyard. When the guy told me the price, I related to him that was more than what the dealership charged. He told me to get it there and hung up on me.

I never called a junkyard again after that.

BTW, I just called McCain’s and they need to know what size engine you have and there are two different fan motors (Nippondenso and Valero) so another reason to pull it first for comparison. They don’t have them onsite, but they can get them from the warehouse with a few hours notice. The Nippondenso was $120, BTW.

JAG “Nappy Auto Parts” MAN

#14

Paul,

and easier to replace the whole assembly rather than removing the fan motor by itself.

That is true and I remember getting the blade seated on the motor shaft can be easy to screw up.

JAG “More Than 20 Characters” MAN

#15

Costs… ~ $40 vs. $100+ I have had good luck with JY parts…YMMV.

“I was born a poor black child”…so I learned how to fix stuff on the cheap.

If Alper can afford new, then by all means get new.

#16

i just checked with my old work - looks like they have come with the motor, blade and shroud on these models

if it is a V6 the assembly would be about $84.73 plus tax.

Junkyards are great for many parts, but unknowns like electrical parts, wiper blades, water pumps, brake pads and other maintenance items just don’t make economical sense to normal people.

#17

Paul,

I have had good luck with JY parts…YMMV.

Who is JY Parts? And very bad pun, BTW.

If Alper can afford new, then by all means get new.

Agreed.

If the price gap between new and used for a critical component shrinks to $40 - $80 vs. the cost of a head gasket replacement ($1500 +) then the extra cost is miniscule in that context. Some might also consider how much longer they will keep a vehicle (plan to buy another or sell in 6 months ?) but I treat every vehicle as if it may be my last one.

According (bad pun again) to conventional wisdom, it is usually cheaper to repair than buy another vehicle, but some cars reach a crossover point where you will chase failure after failure and it isn’t worth risking the potential unreliability or your safety. I have owned a few cars where I kept it a bit longer than I should have. (including one Accord)

JAG “Just South of Normal” MAN

#18

JunkYard… :smile:

#19

That’s why I have a 233,000 mile Celica and a 287,000 mile K1500. :smile:

Zach “Drive it until the wheels fall off, then bolt them back on”

3 Likes
#20

Thanks all for replies, suggestions, cost estimates, etc.
It was a bad motor. Replaced both fan motors while at it.

As for the overheating, the mechanic suggested that it may have been air in the coolant system after the a/c compressor rebuild. Not sure about this, but we checked everything we can think of and they all seem to be in good shape.
The overheating issue was one-time only indeed, never overheated again, before or after replacing the motors.

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