Automate the dust collection system

Something we might want to consider in the medium term:

We could most likely at least automate the gate open/close and collector startup in the wood shop. If want to go a step further, we could outfit each tool ( at least the fixed ones ) with a relay box that will not supply power until dust collection is active.

Possibly this could be a simple interlock switch on each station’s dust collection gate. Open the gate, electronically check to verify collector is running, and only then can the tool get power. Could all be done with relays and microswitches. NO SOFTWARE. Software tends to cause feature creep…

If the “collector active” signal were tied in to the collector’s “I’m full” detector, then the shop would effectively be shut down once the collector is full and stay that way until it’s emptied.

You would want a “must press reset” at each station in with the dust collector signal so there is no chance of a tool being on, but shut down by the interlock, and then coming back on when the bin is cleaned.

Probably needs some more thought. This is just a first pass.

But, it would ensure that tools are not run without dust collection, and that the collectors are emptied in a timely manner.

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That doesn’t seem to be needed, given the inability of far too many to actually close the gate when they finish using the tool. I close at least two gates every time I go thru the woodshop… and at least once a week I turn off one or both of the collectors when there is no one in the room. :roll_eyes:

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Motorizing the gates is a little more involved. Doable. But more complicated.

Then you’d have to sense the motor current in the tool ( easy, and relatively cheap ) and not close the gate if it’s been on in so many minutes, but do so after.

All about UI design…

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I’ve had the opposite experience where I have opened gates while folks were using a machine. :sunglasses:. I seem to see that all the time.

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Two sides of the same coin.

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Iteration 2:

replace the gate valves with these: https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Miami-95004-Motorized-Damper/dp/B00527APJW

Add a box with button and indicator lights. Press button to allow tool to start. On button press, open damper, start dust collector. Dust collector sends back “ok” signal. On “ok” signal, enable relay to allow tool start, illuminate “ok” indicator.

Monitor current into tool.

( Additional ) – if “ok” signal drops while tool is running, leave relay on and damper open until tool stops. It occurrs that shutting down a saw or the planer in mid cut would be a less than desirable idea…

If no current for 1-2 minutes, close damper, open relay, drop “on” vote to dust collector, and light the “shut down” indicator. If there has been current flow, stay in operational position. If it ever stops / closes / shuts down, have to push the start button again.

Dust collector needs a voting system - any one input calling for collection is good enough. But probably want a minimum on time of maybe 5 minutes, simply to keep from subjecting the motor to frequent startups.

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I think Alex looked at ready to install gates that auto-open. For some reason they number $300+ per gate sticks. But there was a wide rang of prices.

I expect the difficulty of adapting the off the shelf auto open/close gate to allow tool control and account for collector operation would be significant. And warranty voiding.

Also, since we have a multitude of talented people, and a whole lot of valves to add should we go down this path, the cheaper option seemed a good choice.

Now, I realize fully that getting our multitude to all go in one direction for any length of time is another matter. A subset of said multitude might be a better choice… :slight_smile:

We originally looked at http://www.grngate.com/ but they had a limitation of 4" on the blast gate. They had an adapter to allow 2 gates on a 5" or 6" duct but it was a little klugey.

I did notice they now have/partner with an industrial solution. http://www.grngate.com/?page_id=723

System Overview.
https://www.ecogate.com/technology.html

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We should evaluate appropriate systems not build our own. Becomes a liability if something goes wrong and burns down the shop. Plus we have the money to do it right.

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And on that note I bow out.

That looks promising.

I wonder how much maintenance is required to keep the pitot tubes clean. I’m assuming thats how they are getting the DP for the velocity fpm.

Yep still needs maintenance to keep all working.

If you check out this PDF


there does appear to be a pitot fed in to the brain of the gate. There is maintenance yes, but a proper sized collection system operating under normal conditions will not have the same magnitude of clogging problems we have now. The master controller in this system would throw a warning at the HMI, which makes maintenance significantly easier.

Which just brings us full circle back to same problem/issue, since if we were doing the maintenance required regarding existing dust control issues we wouldn’t even be having this conversation, right?

(specifically NOT addressing this directly to above quotes/genetlemen) There is NOT enough money and technology in the world to solve our basic problem! Why are we, as an organization, so absolutely and ideologically averse to addressing the root problem here, which is: * rules and standards of behaviour are created/implemented; * members are specifically informed of them or at least are told to make themselves informed of them; * members then consciously and willfully ignore said rules and standards of behaviour; * and then NOTHING HAPPENS TO THEM, and everyone else around them sees it and internalizes what the real rules and standard of behaviour are.

I really just don’t get it. The Ostrich Effect at play here is really distressing, and is putting the whole Dallas Makerspace at risk, if one accepts that the shuttering of the woodshop is an existential threat.

I was wanting to see really what kind of measuring they were doing. Traditional pitot tubes can become clogged by fine dust. I’m curious on how they solved this issue or what kinda workaround they came up with. It’s just pure curiosity & the documentation I have found so far hasn’t shown great detail.

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I have just announced a mini-hackathon on this topic to gain a level of interest.

Since recently becoming chair of Digital Media, I have decided we will begin hosting quarterly hackathons and monthly mini-hackathons.

I personally want to automate my home dust collection at every station and was initially going to make it myself, then see if Andrew & Co. wanted to implement the same system in the woodshop. Now I’m thinking automating the dust collection would make for a good first project of a mini-hackathon.

If you are interested in joining the event, please reply to this thread: [Shelved] Mini-Hackathon - Automate Woodshop Dust Collection

Please note, we just agreed to hire a Fire Safety Engineer to evaluate the space, define needed changes, and represent us with the Fire Marshall.

We clearly need to replace the current collection system, since it is simply unworkable. The FSE will end up detailing for us the requirements of the new system based on Fire and Building code requirements. An engineer will be required to design and seal the drawings in order to receive the needed building permit.

So there’s no point in getting busy on anything yet. This isn’t going to be a DIY job. Once we know what we need to put in place, we can start looking into controlling the blast gates. But we’re not there yet. We shouldalsobear in mind, we’ve been working with Robert Davidson on his new RFID interloc system as well. So this isn’t a new discussion.

Dave K is currently screening FSE candidates, and we hope to get them hired ASAP.

The best and most important way for members to help out, is to help clean the filters, clean the tools, and keep the shop as immaculate as possible.

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So is the project @Azalaket asked me to do, which is create a notification system when a dust bin is full still something that we will be using? The system I am designing will work with any dust bin collector for which we can drill a 3/4" hole in the top of the bin.

Andrew, please let me know if it is worth me continuing on this project.