Ah.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mokume+gane&t=canonical&atb=v116-7_b&iax=images&ia=images
Still no idea how TIG, MIG, nor Arc enters into this game.
I’ve seen “welding” in this sense used to weld strata together to make “damascus” (what I’d call “bastard damascus”, but I’m uncouth, probably) and any of them work. Most folks use MIG or FCAW because it’s quick and cheap.
Still no idea how TIG, MIG, nor Arc enters into this game.
From what I’ve seen on youtube most get sheets of the metals they wish to combine then after layering in a pattern they spot weld the corners before heat welding the billet as a whole.
edit:
1 Like
Yep. Same as “damascus” that I’ve seen, but never done (and prefer not to call “damascus”, but that’s the phrase if you want to find it on the yootubers).
1 Like
There is a safety class that’s required before taking the MIG specific class. Later, they’ll be combined, but there’s enough of a back log of people who have the safety but not the MIG, I figured it was only fair to give them first shot.
Since I don’t see that safety class up on the calendar. Would @malcolmputer or anyone @Team_Metal_Shop be available tonight around 7pm for a quick class?
1 Like
We’ll have to split this into another thread, since it’s off topic. That’s a new welding class request thread 
I don’t know of other instructors that do one-one classes, and I’m not sure they should really be allowed. The main reason is, just the safety alone takes an hour and a half. My combined class is about 5 hours long. Not something I’d want to just show a buddy how to weld unless they already really know what they are doing and they’ve had the safety class.
It’s not a machine like the cold cut saw, we have quite a few rules in place about it, and it can be dangerous in unexpected ways.
3 Likes
Ya’ know – we’ve also got an regular old arc-welder. No messing with finicky gases. Granted, it’s probably not as clean a weld, because the oxygen is getting in and mucking with things. It doesn’t seem to be what folks want to teach, though…
1 Like
I’m the only teacher for it, and I taught a class a few months back. It’s dirty, bad on the lungs, and hot, so I don’t teach it in the summer. If you’re interested I’ll teach another one when it cools off enough for the exhaust and heat to not bother me.
4 Likes
I believe we’re still using the Hobart as flux core, which is the modern version of stick with no finicky gases and longer, cleaner electrodes and more steady-state operation (hold your hand a steady distance from the work).
Stick itself is…messy. The flux keeps the oxygen out of the weld (that’s why it’s there), but it causes lots of smoke and spatter and…ick. Further it makes for welds that need peened and brushed and preened and…etc.
So it’s less about that nobody wants to teach it, and more about how much work it is, especially inside a shop.
And more people tend to be interested in the gas processes than the old cracklbox. They’re just sexier.
I wasn’t interested until I read this term. I can hear the sound in my head now…
Well I did learn a little of MIG welding back when I was with Z1N hackerspace from my brothers but that was years ago so which ever system we have available that can spot weld copper, zinc and brass/bronzes would be great to learn.
No zinc. Never zinc. Mega-fume issue. That’s why we don’t do galvanized, or, for that matter, bronze. (I think it’s bronze that’s the zinc alloy…)
2 Likes
Actually, with MIG, you can create a weld that has surface deep beauty, and no penetration or strength. With stick, as long as you have a somewhat correctly sized electrode, you can’t do nearly as bad at prettying over a lack of substance.
And, the coating on the electrodes is there specifically to protect the weld puddle. Some of it evaporates to displace oxygen that could get in. Some of it melts madness floats on the back of the puddle keeping oxygen off as it cools, and some of either the coating, or the electrode metaurgy works to reduce any oxides that form and keep the metal oxide free. This is an always moving target, but high tensile strength welding is still more likely to be stick welding. MIG is popular in industry because you can lay more lbs of filler per hour than stick. It is more popular to teach because it is cleaner, and easier to get pretty results from.
But, learning stick first will often result in knowing more accurately when you have a good MIG weld, or a pretty MIG weld, and sets you up better to learn TIG.
And, if you are broken down in the middle of nowhere, and you find a farmer with welding gear, it is still more likely to be stick than anything else. (Though again, shifting more to MIG, but hard facing tends to push toward stick still)
2 Likes
What I focus on in my occasional MIG classes, is truly making a good weld. We review each weld, make suggestions and cut up some of the pieces to look at the penetration.
2 Likes
See, my issue is that I’ve got one small thing I need to fix with a little weld. The price for the MIG class makes me cough, especially since I’ve only got one weld that I need to make. Hmmmm… maybe I should just get some MAPP gas and braze it instead…
Mokume Gane and various pattern “Damascus” metals are examples of “forge-welding” wherein two different metals (or alloys) are heated to near-melting temperatures and then pressure is applied (usually with a hand-held hammer, power hammer, or hydraulic press) to weld the two metals into a single piece. The goal of pattern welding is fusing lots of different lamination layers of the original two metals, usually manipulated into interesting patterns.
These patterns are often enhanced with post-processing with abrasives and/or acid. “Damascus” usually involves steel with varying nickel or other add-ins which change how the metal etches under acid. Mokume Gane uses non-ferrous metals (gold, silver, copper, and various copper alloys).
@EthanWestern has successfully done both using the induction forge as a heat source at DMS. Cool stuff.
(Warning: simplification alert)
That being said, that’s not the welding class stuff being requested.
The “welding” discussed prior to this point deals more with using electricity to heat two metal pieces together and add a sacrificial third metal (usually also providing the electric current), to weld the two metals into a single piece. In this case, the weld-metal acts a little like glue and fills and strengthens the join, but the welding process fuses the two pieces together. There are several variants depending upon how the sacrificial metal is delivered, AC vs DC voltages, where the positive and negative terminals are attached, etc.
The goal of this kind of welding is the firm attachment of the two pieces of metal to each other. A pretty weld usually also means a well-executed, stronger weld, but the pattern of the weld is secondary to to the process.
We can do TIG, MIG, and stick welding at DMS using the welders on hand.
There is also oxy-acetylene welding (aka torch welding) which uses burning gas to heat the metals until they melt together (sometimes with more sacrificial metal added to strengthen the join). We don’t do oxy at the DMS due to storage restrictions for the gas needed.
Brazing and soldering are somewhat related, but only the added metal is melted, whereas the original parts are heated, but not melted. These processes can and have been done at DMS as well, but I don’t believe any special training is required before doing so here.
2 Likes
induction forge as a heat source
So if I’m getting you right then we have a way to create Mokume Gane without using one of the welding just by placing the raw stacks in the induction forge?
edit:
sorry for such neophyte questions. I know we get enough of this stuff with newbe coders over in the IT world which is uhmm “endearing” when they’re trying to learn, but the eyebrow twitch factor is recognized and felt. So please bare with me as I’m trying to learn and coming from a completely different field of engineering
Kinda. It’s a little more complex than just placing raw stacks in the induction forge.
Here are some relevant videos:
Back to the topic at hand, the MIG class for the 28th is live.
3 Likes
Just to cover the pedantic scale, “spot welding” generally is used to refer to the process using the eponymous machine, which uses non-sacrificial electrodes to simultaneously clamp the materials to be welded together to each other, and supply sufficient electric power to resistantly heat them sufficiently to join them. Typically no filler is employed. Calling it “spot welding” to refer to using any of these other process to join plates together as depicted for “Damascus”, etc. could cause some confusion…
One thing to keep in mind is if its thinner metal, smaw (stick welding), is more difficult to do. It can be done, but it takes more skill & patience.
Ive welded exhaust Via stick welding.