Professional Scan Tool

Automotive
#1

There have been multiple posts about scan tools, and what we do or do not have.

Is there a reason, outside of cost, that we don’t have a high-end professional scan tool that covers most vehicles.

Snap-On makes my hands down favorite.

https://www1.snapon.com/diagnostics/us/SOLUSEdge

It is pricey at just under $4000.00, but it does cover most vehicles; 1980-newer domestic vehicles, 1983-newer Asian vehicles, 1992-newer European vehicles, and lets you clear codes and reset timed maintenance.

The diagnostic elements are fantastic as well.

While it is an expensive tool it, or something similar, is in every shop.

#2

Those are nifty. It has been quite a while since I’ve been in tune with that stream of devices, but here’s what I remember (this may have changed, but that industry tends to change very slowly):
it SAYS it covers 1980+ domestic, 1983+ asian, and that European vehicles are optional (even though it states it covers 1992+). That was NOT the case, per se. They usually worked with OBD vehicles in those ranges, and generic OBDII. Manufacturer specific modules were $(domestic)-$$$$(European). Subscriptions were the rage, so you needed to have them in place, or pay the back fees when/if you wanted to upgrade or add on. This has now become the norm in most realms of “computer stuff”, so I reckon it has progressed and pervaded further into this space as well. Thus, in addition to the purchase, you’ll have a maintenance fee (per month, per year, etc.)
You are correct virtually every shop has one, but this is, in part, because they NEED it if they want to remain viable in today’s market. As we are not a seller of service, it’s less compelling for us.

Also, as far as I can tell, this does not include such capabilities as reprogramming (keys, settable features such as door unlock functions from the FOB, etc.) or “flashing” (upgrades to software, such as transmission re-coding, engine controller recoding, etc.), which are the drive behind the aftermarket devices to end users for specific makes/models/etc. as mentioned in the other thread.
Further, to use full capabilities, you’ll need to (purchase, I presume) obtain the SnapOn ShopStreamConnect software (and have it installed somewhere, which they usually like to sell you as well).

Having said all that, and this: I reckon you’ll be disappointed by what you think you’ll be able to do vs. what you actually CAN do, I say go for it. They are neat devices.

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#3

So I’ve actually used this one and it does handle domestic and Japanese keys, locks, and the like. For me though the bigger deal is the diagnostic element including replacement part numbers.

If you check out the software tab it’ll go over what it can do.

Also, the European add on is for being able to do Euro keys which is an additional $189.00

Software is included with the unit, but you are correct in that if you want to keep it up to date you’ll need to upgrade your software year over year with new vehicle releases.

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#4

We just have a small cheap actron code scanner right now, if anyone wants to write up a proposal and put it on the next board agenda to purchase the snap on solus (or an equivalent fully contained professional scan tool) and explain to the board why we need one that would be good. (Personally I haven’t run across a need so I don’t know the advantages of having it)

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#5

Is there a template or format that proposals should be written in?

#6

include an anti theft measure?

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#7

Login with DMS ad account and edit new business section to add

===Title (Your name)===
‘’‘Problem:’’’ Describe problem

‘’‘Solution:’’’ Describe solution, such as allocate X to Y for purchase of Z

‘’‘Relevance:’’’ Describe how this is relevant to our 501c3 purpose, typically how it will aid in educational goals

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#8

Read the section linked below: :relaxed:

https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20170122#Consent_Agenda

Edit to add: I updated the section to include guidelines for adding agenda items, as it seems to have been left out the last couple/few meetings. :slight_smile:

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#9

This might be a lower cost alternative:

http://www.drewtech.com/products/cardaqplus.html

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#10

Looks like Snap-On offers a self training website:

https://www1.snapon.com/diagnostics/US/CC/Knowledge-Base.htm?FB_Values=F1_C6_A64!F1_C31_A2!F3_C31_A2!F3_C6_A64!F4_C6_A64&platformImage=%2Fdisplay%2F1060%2FCustCare%2FsolusEdge.png&searchInType=Training&platformName=SOLUS%20Edge

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#11

I just got off the phone with a Snap-on rep and he seemed to think the Ethos line would be better for us:
https://www1.snapon.com/diagnostics/us/ETHOSTech

Feel free to contact Carlos the Snap-on rep:
469-682-9679

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#12

ScannerDanner on youtube has the best information and usage of scantools and advanced troubleshooting I’ve ever seen. I’d highly recommend casual viewing of his channels as a means of becoming familiar with Snap-on diagnostic tools, not just to learn how to use whatever we end up with, but also to help select the right one for us. The Snap-on scantool/scope lineup is extremely confusing and it’s not at all straightforward to make a selection.

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#13

Speaking of making the right scantool selection, do we have an automotive scope yet? I don’t think we do and I’m inclined to suggest something like a Verus or Modis rather than an Ethos because the Ethos is a scantool only and has no scope builtin. Although, I suppose there could be a clear benefit to us in having them separate, and I can’t recall just now whether Snapon really makes any beneficial use of having the scope built in to the scantool. We might do well with a separate Ethos and PicoScope for instance.

If you like working on cars but you’ve never used scantools or scopes before and aren’t familiar with the benefits, you owe it to yourself to watch some ScannerDanner tonight. Then again, maybe don’t. You might wake up tomorrow $4k poorer. :wink:

#14

I don’t like the idea of a high end scan tool at DMS that costs thousands of dollars. The overwhelming majority of people who walk through the auto area don’t even know how to use a basic scan tool let alone a high end one. It seems more like something to enable a few members to save money in really specific scenarios versus a tool that provides good learning opportunities to most members. The goal in my mind is to enable people to learn about automotive repair and setup a shop that covers common things (and a few uncommon things), not setup a full automotive repair shop with high end tools to cover literally every scenario possible.

TL;DR the bang for the buck isn’t there in my opinion.

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#15

If the goal of Automotive is to stay in the 1950s through 1980s vehicle era, then a professional scan tool is not necessary. Cars are now rolling supercomputers, with multiple electronic control modules (ECMs) talking to one another over various busses. Saying that you’d rather not spend money on a high end tool is akin to telling electronics that a 20 MHz bandwidth analog oscilloscope is “good enough” for the common CPUs of by-gone eras, or telling Wood Shop that anything you can do with the MultiCAM can be done with hand chisels.

Can the cheap Actron code reader give clues to why your engine is running rough or your transmission isn’t shifting correctly? How about bleeding an ABS system after changing out a master brake cylinder, or exercising injectors to check for leaking fuel lines? Maybe, just like you might be able to use a hand-held logic probe or voltmeter to figure out why a I2C device on your latest project isn’t ACKing. However, a fast digital o-scope or logic analyzer is the best-fit tool for the job. This is not a case of a tool “to enable a few members to save money”.

As for the brand-specific tool which I originally suggested, that one just goes on my tool list and will be purchased as funding permits. A more brand-generic tool, such as the one suggested by @frank_lima, is probably more appropriate for DMS.

We do a mixture of simple and complex things at DMS. I’d say that rebuilding the Lemons car’s engine is fairly well into the “advanced” category. If our mission is to educate in Automotive, then that committee needs to invest in the tools which modern automotive technicians use to troubleshoot and fix both simple and complex problems.

Unless, of course, spending money on valveless pulsejets as the future of Automotive strikes you as a better “bang for the buck”.

#16

I definitely understand the expense being a limiting factor.

The cheaper modes do seem like they could be a better fit.

I just linked the Snap-On because I’ve used it.

Again, I think the value is in its diagnostic capabilities and being able to not only tell you what is wrong, but what parts to replace with part numbers in many cases.

They are a great way to learn, especially since I can’t recall ever seeing classes on diagnosing issues or general repairs.

I will probably write up a proposal, but this was just more of a question as to the why.

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#17

because we don’t do any

Has this been answered to your satisfaction?
I think it roughly boils down to:

  1. Makerspace doesn’t really WANT to do this kind of stuff here
  2. you can spend a lot of money and satisfy very few
  3. model-specific tools are not really out of reach of the individual, especially with the bluetooth/smartphone innovations of the current era

Happy to help any way I can with the proposal. I’d love to see more of this stuff here.

#18

I’d say the majority of its value lies in being able to graph multiple PID values simultaneously over time. Hands down that is the single biggest difference between an Autozone scanner and the serious stuff that ScannerDanner uses.

It still doesn’t “tell you” what’s wrong or what to replace, but graphing the right values can often make the problem immediately obvious to you whereas a basic OBDII scanner might offer you no direction at all. It’s like taking a multimeter and replacing it with an oscilloscope. Adding the time dimension is everything. Try using a multimeter to verify the duty cycle of a PWM signal. You just can’t.

#19
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#20

Right, because modern cars don’t have axles, bearings, shocks, springs, belts, spark plugs, transmissions… You get my point. I agree that a nicer scan tool would be handy but let’s not go crazy.

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