- I have seen many perspective members want to know the rules regarding things and everyone seems to have a different opinion when they ask and the person that knows for certain may not be available to ask. We are not always at the space.
- The wiki is the one true source of information. I have been told this over and over again.
- People of different areas could now be of help because the rules are clearly laid out in the wiki.
- We will have a record of the rules and changes to the rules via wiki history for legal reasons
- There will now be a way to subscribe to rules changes via the notifications on the wiki
- It will be consistent throughout the space
So it’s an aesthetics thing: Placard vs Tape. Not the information being conveyed. I would say that Machine Shop prefers functional over aesthetics.
There are places on machines that placards can’t be attached but tape or adhesives put it right in line of sight.
Not everything is uniform around the space: bandsaws. Wood Shop requires training before they can be used, Metal and Machine Shop does not. They are used differently for different types of material and types of cuts, each committee has determined, based on their experience, what that should be.
Not my proposed rule but @mblatz suggestion which doesn’t really have anything to do with the proposed rule.
Nope. Completely unwilling, in fact. Most of what I just mentioned has been suggested or tried in the past but failed or died aborning. There’s a reason why this happens so much here. When the underlying structural/organizational issues that cause these situations are addressed, I might then be willing to again commit my time, effort, intellect, and precious bodily fluids. Unfortunately such fixes include fixing human nature, in particular the willingness to become a free rider when circumstances allow it. There’s a reason why only about ~50 people at DMS account for about ~95% of the “employee” activities and responsibilities that all members are all responsible for.
~50 (my estimate, might be as high as 100). Out of ~1800 paying (not necessarily active) members. Think about it.
This isn’t really the thread to discuss all of this, though.
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The vast majority of new members don’t even know about wiki. The search function on the wiki is, well let’s just say not robust and effective. Reality: people aren’t going to go to the wiki every time they use something and read it, they routinely don’t read what is on or near the machine - but at least they can’t say weren’t told. Work area signage and labels are their responsibility to look at and obey.
Something posted on the machine is pretty hard to miss and shows it’s importance.
Again, this is not replacing putting signs on the machines. There should be signs on the machine. There should also be a way for others to go some place and find out the rules before they drive long distances to find out they can’t do what they wanted to do. Not everyone uses all parts of the space often. I do think that Chris’s suggestion of it being too much trouble in going back and putting all rules for all equipment that were made in the past is correct. I will change the proposed rule to that effect. But going forward, I don’t see any reason not to update the wiki with new rules as they come out. They announce them on Talk, why not the true source on the wiki?
Not against updating the wiki. (If the search function can be made more effective that will go a long way in increasing it’s usefulness)
What is put on the tools should continue to be a committee decision as they are the most qualified and empowered to control their use.
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so my $0.02 as a relatively new member, I search the wiki to learn what’s up, and sometimes I’m told it’s inaccurate because no one updates it.
Now, I constantly get conflicting information about various other rules when asking someone in person. As that new member, what am I to do?
If the Wiki were truly authoritative, then it would all be settled as to what I would listen to, and whomever is responsible for updating it just needs to get spurred to do so (i.e. everyone who has the factual basis to make an update it should update it. I haven’t been here long enough to do that yet since I’m still getting grounded in some stuff).
Some of the Wiki stuff is pretty useful off the bat (the tools page lists training requirements, though people sometimes still argue about something needing training or not). But committee rules? I’ve tried to find them before and it’s disappointing how difficult it is to clear things up. So far I think I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve gotten the same answer to a question at DMS.
-Tails
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Thank you bunches for all that work!
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There are many ways to build better awareness than just posting a rule on a tool. You can teach the rule in the class where you gain access to the tool. You can make posters with the particular rule and post them through out the space. You can lead groups that take the time to explain the rule and why it is there on tour nights and other events where you explain the committee area. Best of all, you can note it officially on the wiki to allow the BOD to actually enforce the rule as it now has a date by which it was started and is posted in our official record for the space.
This is incorrect, there are many circumstance by which people can not be aware of work area signage. As the signage can be covered or blocked with dirt or an obstruction and made illegible. The sign can be removed by others either for a proper reason or improper reason. The sign can be made of poor material and just not survive the environment it is in. I’m sure others can think of other possible problems. This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t put signage on a machine, but just because your took a piece of blue tape and wrote a not once once on the lathe, doesn’t make it a perfect solution, just because there is a sign on the machine.
To be honest it feels like @John_Marlow and @Photomancer are exaggerating very minor issues and claiming them to be major problems. All committees should post rules for their committee areas in the Wiki. Yes, it isn’t the easiest, fastest, or nicest repository for these rules. But, it is the official repository for the group for items like this. Will their be growing pains, yes. Will every committee accept it right away, no. But, should ee try to implement it, YES, Most Definitely.
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On the tool signage include a barcode link to the item on the wiki.
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Machine shop has had posted rules for a good while. While QR codes are great, they can get glue, solvents, oils etc… & become non-scannable.
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Well, they can be of almost any size and made of many different materials not just paper. You could make them on the Haas if you wanted.or stamp them into something
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My personal preference is something I can read. There’s no way I’m sticking my oily hands into my pockets while I’m in Machine Shop to pull out my phone and scan something …
Printing only a QR code gives someone an additional layer to go through to see the rules.
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Tisk Tisk … you are suppose to read the rules before working on the machine. 
Also, that is why we have signs posted with the rules and not JUST QR codes or links.
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@TBJK and @John_Marlow,
The suggestion by @Lampy,
It was just a suggestion to include a Bar Code (or possibly QR code), that is in addition to the printed rules.
The idea of this change to the dms system is to be able to tell all members there is 1 location by which you can find, cite, and read the rules of DMS. Being able to find and cite rules is probably the most important part of the rules at DMS, because it allows all members the ability to step in if they notice someone breaking a rule. Having Signs is great and I support it. But, it isn’t sufficient in itself, having the rules on the wiki is needed to be able to cite rules in situations where you are not standing directly in front of the rules sign.
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How about this compromise? It is either posted directly on the tool or on the wiki. If a rule is not posted in either place, then it is not a rule; just a recommendation. like the last 2” suggestion on the drum sander; it’s neither on the machine or the wiki therefore you can pester me about the concept but you can not stop me or later ban me for an infraction.
I have just compromised actually … Here is the new proposal This allows current rules for individual items to not be added to the wiki but any new rules need to be.
Update Rule 9.3.6.1 Committee Responsibilities and Rules (Mike Cole “Draco”)
Problem: There has been confusion for current and new members in finding the current and updated committee rules. There currently is no unified place for the rules to exist for committee areas and equipment.
The current rule:
Rule 9.3.6.1 Committee Responsibilities and Rules. Each committee will need to maintain a page on the wiki with at least the following information:
- The name of the committee chair
- A list of all active members
- A brief statement listing the goals or tasks assigned to the committee.
- The category tag: [[Category:Proposed Committees]]
Solution: Change Rule 9.3.6.1 Committee Responsibilities and Rules to include
“5. All rules made by the committee for committee areas or covering all committee equipment.”
and
“6. Any new rules made by the committee for specific committee equipment.”
Relevance: This will make sure that current members and new members have access to the current rules of the committee areas and equipment.
The idea is, people already announce it on talk, why not the wiki?
Also take a look at the work I have done on the Tools page …take a look at how rules might be done
Example:
