am pulling an engine offsite today to drop into my truck. What if any procedure would i need to follow in order to borrow and use the engine hoist for the better part of today offsite?
@Brandon_Green mentioned in another post that they no longer allow removal of DMS tools from DMS. Another member recommended hauling the vehicle to the space but I believe there are rules on how long your vehicle can stay so you have to keep that in mind also.
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The practice of borrowing tools is forbidden by DMS rules.
Edit: here is the thread @mkart was talking about Need some help on fixing my car
In most cases I can’t agree especially with any type of tool that can walk off or be damaged but what we’re talking about here is taking a portable tool that is more or less indestructible and severely limiting practical usability. Do you know what the cost is to tow not one but two large trucks from Fort Worth to Dallas. One truck that the engine will be pulled from and one it will be put in? It seems like an extreme waste of time and resources when the hoist can very easily be put on a trailer or in the back of a truck and taken to where its needed. How do i go about escalating this to a committee chair or panel or whatever?
To do what you want with the hoist is a difficult ask and like others have said in many cases “forbidden.” But, you don’t have to accept our word on it. We are a flexible group and through the correct action you may be able to get access to the gantry crane.
First, I would get @Brandon_Green to say that it was ok for you to use the Gantry Crane off-site. As he is the committee head it would seem that kind of a decision would be in his power.
At that point you are probably OK, but that is no guarantee that the board of directors won’t take issue with the idea. Brandon is pretty well versed in DMS Politicking as well and may suggest you get approval of the board first before he gives approval as well. So try and contact the board and see if you can come to an agreement to appease them taking particular issue with the borrowing of the tool.
If you have approval of Brandon and the Board you should be ok, as the only group that could take issue beyond that is the Voting membership and the chance of them taking issue in reasonable numbers to get you in trouble is low, because this isn’t really the scale of an issue they tackle.
You can rent them. I’ve done that a few years ago, before I bought mine.
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Ill contact brandon directly, and thanks for pointing me in the right directions. I dont know if it is more practical and time saving to plead my case to some degree here. If we are having ongoing issues with tools getting lost or broken or stolen when they are offsite then maybe we should be stripping priviledges from those guilty rather than make using the spaces resources so difficult that they become unusable. I didnt join makerspace just for the building and meeting place. I joined the makerspace for its collective resources. Ive noticed us slipping in the direction of blind or blanket regulation rather than tackling issues in a more specific way. Saying the use of offsite tools is forbidden seems more like a knee jerk overly simpified reaction to what is probably a much more complex problem. Where is the line drawn to define offsite and onsite? Is the ramp onsite? Is the back parking lot? How about tanners parking lot? If were going to adhere to some weird and strict interpretation then no working on cars in the parking lot. What is the functional difference to using it in our parking lot compared to the lot of the mechanic im buying the engine from? Oversight? Accessibility? Nearness? In an extreme compromise im even willing to leave some sort of collateralized deposit or credit card or what not…
I can rent all sorts of things, but that completely defeats the purpose of having a collective pool of resources. I could also rent one from the dallas makerspace at the rate of 50 a month.
The catch is that you are upset because the rule is catching you. But, had you needed the tool onsite and it was gone I’m sure you could easily make the other argument as well. Most members come to the space to use the tools and thus the DMS wants to have the tools here to use. There is a solid reason for the rule. I explained that we are flexible in the way you want already, it is just difficult. That is on purpose, because most people use the tools at DMS and removing access from many for the few is a special case. Does that make since?
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I can rent all sorts of things, but that completely defeats the purpose of having a collective pool of resources. I could also rent one from the dallas makerspace at the rate of 50 a month.
I take exception to your “I’m entitled to this” attitude.
Your $50/mo does not guarantee or entitle you to do anything you want with DMS resources. You are not “renting” resources with the membership fee: it gets you in the for, keeps the lights on, keeps the restrooms clean, etc.
DMS is not competing with Jack Junkies or Auto Zone.
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According to our code of conduct, item 4.
However, there is a loophole in the note for that item
So either Brandon or a Board member may give you the permission you seek. I suggest that would be best sought in person. I would also remind of an old cliche; “You catch more flys with with honey then you do with vinegar.”
I have reached out to brandon directly and agree thats its the best solution
Tools should not leave the premises unless it is for DMS events (LEMONS, PR events, etc). Those events are announced ahead of time and usually only take one item if we have duplicates.
This rule is in place because what if you did tow two cars to the space to use the engine hoist only to find out someone had taken it off site for their own project?
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Partially about having a tool available to other users and partially that we have no current system to track items that have been borrowed.
I’ll sure many would love to borrow a 3D printer, Shapeoko, ocilloscope for the weekend.
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Well im sorry that you take exception that i ‘feel entitled’, but its kind of misplaced i think. Expecting to have a tool where it is usable is no different than me expecting to use a tool in its most effecient and effective manor. Even if i were pulling the engines in house and swapping the trucks manually by pushing them in and out of the bay the hoist would still be just as unusable as me having it in use 2 miles or 20 miles away. We arent forced to pay our dues as taxes, they are voluntary and come with serious benefits. No $50 wouldnt guarantee a rental at taylors and thats why we are members here. A collective pool of money gives us all access to tools we could not otherwise afford. Suggesting i rent one 3rd party is completely contradictory to our purpose as an organization
Then i woukd expect it to be returned in a timely fashion. If i get to MS and the cnc router i would dobthe same thing. Wait till they were done if the time they were using it becane unreasonable, i.e. they alk away leavin a half cut projectbor waste time on the phone then id have to say something because we expect people to adhere to what they say the tine frame is. If i use a tool offsite and say itll be back that evening, then id better be sure that it is back by tat evening because thats when i committed to it veibg back
Why should you expect something that is clearly documented in the rules as not being allowed. Our terms and conditions are clear. We are not a tool rental facility.
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Some comparisons are not ofbthe same magnitude. A 3d printer is a) not designed to be mobile. B) easily broken or damaged c) has no restrictions like working with a 4000 pound truck. Were partially talking pure logistics here and the effort to mive 8000 pounds of vehicle is exponentially harder than moving 250 pounds of hoist.
It does not actually say ‘not allowed’ in the rules if i am not mistaken. It says they must stay on premises so tat other users may use them. To me this just as much applies to an offsite tool being returned when its nit being used ‘so other members may use it’ if im using the tool it is not in a usable state regardless of its locale therefore it may not at that point be used by other members.
As a member you are free to put an item on the BoD agenda to change the rules.
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