Seems like this thread started because there was concern that new members couldn’t get qualified at minimum levels without extremely long waits. I think woodshop safety, or basics was one that was mentioned a lot.That’s what I’ve been addressing. I may be wrong on any or all of the above. If so, then I have in fact missed the point and will quote the late, great Miss Emily Litella. “Nevermind.”
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The disagreement is whether the committee should be punished for an arbitrary decision about not having enough classes (especially when the wait list isn’t in place and thus cant even be tracked)
It’s a utopian ideal…we will have enough classes to get folks trained at the time and pace of their choosing. But it’s just that. Great in paper but not practically solvable unless we start deleting membership. Instructors are all volunteer like everything else and get paid essentially nothing. You can’t require a volunteer to MAKE demands of the space fit their lives without making it worth their while. Membership is full of talk about paying so it is but when it’s time to fork over the cash they don’t do it. We are a bunch of buddies tinkering in a garage on steroids. You don’t call said buddy to leave work early and bring you a wrench. The wrench doesn’t pay his bills…nor are you going to start paying his mortgage so he can fetch wrenches whenever you want.
She might if even half of that was accurate but it’s not. Neither is your statement. Put the hatchet back in the ground…
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All I know is what is posted in the thread where a member was stuck paying for prints that weren’t theirs. No hatchet here and I wish that more details were available to put the issue to bed. No need to attack me. All I said was that she had a point.
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Then how about clearing it up right here and now? Why the cloak and dagger act of denial and obfuscation?
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I’ll teach you any class you need but it will $1,200 cash. Also will be at my schedule and availability. How bad do you need wood shop basics?
I understand new member frustrations as I remember when we had one contractor grade table saw and before we had 3D printers or our own laser cutter.
But I will give you some “Old Member Frustrations”:
DMS is a community workshop (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS is a collaborative space (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS has the best tools we can currently afford (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS is run by volunteers (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS is a non-profit with no paid staff (It’s not about you all the time)
etc.
etc.
Welcome new member but we have members, not customers. Stop treating our volunteers as your service providers. It’s a community!
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See you have context when DMS was new and young and growing. The new members see only a well fitted large diverse shop environment. Only wanting to get going on projects.
Selling new members is not about building from a $200 Crafstman contractor saw to a SawStop or a commercial CNC wood and metal machining tools. Those are already here!!! It’s about look at all the cool stuff you can use to make. This is a mature phase of DMS. Ths phase requires different processes and procedures, like ‘basic trainings’, etc. In the Golden Age, did you have to hold back until you were cleared?
What you stated is all true, but dynamics are different now and leadership is needed to move DMS to a higher level of cooperation and yes volunteerism.
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Maybe it wasn’t resolved?
Owen, sincerely, please tell me what your personal recommendations are for leadership can do to get more volunteers? I’ve been co-chair of CA, Chair of Machine Shop, and now on BoD. So I’m asking as someone that that has been entrusted with leadership positions you refer to. Caveat before answering: People saying “More Money” is not volunteerism. I’m always asking people to volunteer to teach classes, I even ask people what they could teach when signing them up. By doing that I’m hopefully instilling the concept that you are a MEMBER of an all volunteer organization and NOT A CUSTOMER. If someone tells me the only thing they are really interested in is Wood Shop I’m up front with them that it may be a while before they can get that required training. I recommend they NOT JOIN right then but watch the Calendar, when they see a class opening IMMEDIATELY JOIN and then IMMEDIATELY sign up for that class.
I’m fine with charging for outside instructors to come in and teach expedited classes paid for by the people willing to pay to get expedited classes. That’s a partial solution We are not a Tech Shop, you want super “customer service”: pay the freight. Your dues were designed to support that, they are low because we have the expectation of volunteerism. They will be helping solve the problem: Just like toll roads they’ll be paying for faster service and at the same time reducing backlog demand for others waiting for the class.
Since we’ve moved here three years ago we’ve gone from 300 to a little over 1,600. Approximately a 500% increase. The number of volunteer instructors has NOT gone up anywhere near that ratio otherwise there would be about 30+ instructors for just Wood Basics. There is much more of the customer mentality “Hey, I paid $50 so every thing should be immediately available to me at my convenience. Why aren’t these lazy volunteers teaching more! Can’t they see I’M waiting? Me, Volunteer? Whoa whoa whoa, I paid my $50, besides I’m busy. I want, I want, I want. Why aren’t these volunteers supporting me!”
As someone that teaches different six different Training Required classes (Bridgeport, Engine Lathe, Sherline Mill, Cold Cut Saw and starting next week PlasmaCam and later Sherline Lathe) 5 of the 6 classes are 2.5-3.0 hours plus prep time of about 30-45 minutes. Wood Shop basics requires the same amount of time.
Most of the current instructors are NOT old time Lady Birders, they are Noob Monetary Members 
. The frustration being expressed is all the complaints we’re hearing about what a piss poor inadequate job we’re doing as volunteers teaching the classes we do, which appears to be just slightly more often than Eclipses occur. It gets old.
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Bravo! Eloquently said. (I wish I could do that without putting my foot in my mouth)
And to add, I’m only doing 2 classes this month (that’s 2 more than at least 1500 others) but that’s because all the necessary classrooms are FULL (that’s great!). But I’m mentoring 3 students these first two weeks alone with personal projects on the HAAS on my own time. That’s on top of getting the bandsaw working again, and keeping the shop clean. I didn’t need Mo money to do that.
I’m not a saint - I’m not above doing one-on-ones for profit. But that likely takes me away from my business and the cost would have to replace that income which will definately run into 3 digits for a two hour instruction.
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Yes, you did in fact confirm my argument that classes alone don’t pay for new tools. All kinds of funding is used to pay for tools.
Your original statement is above. Your attempt to claim victory is for an entirely different argument. In logic, this is called equivocation and is a form of logical fallacy. David addressed your original and fallacious argument.
P.S. Electronics just acquired a new microscope, at my request, paid for entirely by the honorarium revenues created by the classes I taught. Which counters your attempt to change the meaning of your first argument. This is not the first time something like this has occurred.
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Sometimes classes buy tools; sometimes other funding buys tools. That classes are the only moneys used to buy tools is not correct. That no money from classes is not correct.
If I say I was not correct, will you still tell me I’m wrong?
Again, your attempting to use equivocation. As said above, your original statement was ENTIRELY wrong. David corrected you. Let it stand at that.
This back and forth is not unlike the argument which got Richard Alexander banned from the forum.
Richard Alexander: The Board never gave the Science Committee any money.
Andrew LeCody: Science makes money from honorariums.
Both were technically correct…
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Interesting.
Maybe @wanderson and I can come up with a correct statement that pleases everyone regarding classes and funding tools.
Someone needs to say it: DMS is an incredible success and the current business model is working great!
It is not perfect and never will be. Even if all the suggestions were implemented well, it will not be the ideal situation for everyone. We need to continue to evolve with carefully considered options and volunteer support. There is competition and that’s great. Lots of options available.
To those that continue to demand that their wishes be implemented immediately I would say, “What you see is what you get!”
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I totally agree with the Old Members Frustrations. I’m a medium member, I’m guessing 4 years now. I have waited for classes, not complained, I’m not complaining about classes now.and am willing to wait, so this has little to do with me. What I am saying is, it should be a committee’s responsibility, the group’s responsibility, the one’s who use the machines in the group - I’m not talking about the committee chair, or one or two people being forced to quit their job, take leave from wok, or any other such suggestions. If a lot of people are using machines, that should be a pool of potential teachers. If it not a valid assumption for a starting point, then I got nothing else I can think of for a solution
Edit: changed “those in the great”, to “those in the group.”
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One would think so.
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I don not know what else, but he teaches a lot of laser classes.
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