I do believe that one difference is that this does not prevent people from making pottery. Take a look at the bisque shelves to see the items that have made it through one firing already.
Yeah, I hope @Photomancer is paying attention.
I do believe that one difference is that this does not prevent people from making pottery. Take a look at the bisque shelves to see the items that have made it through one firing already.
Yeah, I hope @Photomancer is paying attention.
In the case of the kilns, would it not be better to contract out or rent kiln time? These infrequently-used devices take up substantial floor space and infrastructure resources, which might be better used to some other end.
I believe your original question has been answered. Especially considering that your next sentence demonstrates a base lack of knowledge of the kilns at all. You assume they are infrequently-used. Hopefully you can see from the many paragraphs of text in this thread that your assumption is completely incorrect.
If there is anything causing issues in fired arts it is a lack of space That area is one of
the most heavily used areas in the workshop other than the woodshop and maybe the auto
bays,
What would happen if running a job on the laser took it up ror over 24 hre
preventing anyone else from using it? What if the misuse of a
tool could destroy hours of multiple folks work, A pot fired too damp can
explode and it can break multiple other pieces,
FYI this is inaccurate I don’t really have a dog in the fight but we have lost 2 members and likely more from not being able to fire the kilns both were qualified to do it themselves.
I would be interested to know how many days a month the kilns are on?
From Beth s posts it looks like about twice a week, she is firing as soon
as there is a kiln load to fire
That is about the same rate as I remember at Northlake, but we also had a gas
kiln that fired about once every 2-3 wks,
Also more firings mean more wear on the element and more breakdowns
I have been at most of the fired arts committee meetings and I do not remember anyoen
complaining about not being able to fire the kiln or it not being fired often enough
Bisque is unloaded. Nothing is full enough to predict which we’ll load up next. If you’ve got bisque, you might consider either glazing it or taking it home!!
How many members have we lost because they joined and bave up on getting a woodshop basics class
after a couple of months? and that has been a problem for at least 2 years
I would be interested to know how many days a month the kilns are on?
Something like this would give more “data” than we have now
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/run-hours-meter/23903
but of course does NOT compensate for such things as cooldown time, only “hours of electric consumption”.
I have the impression they’re on roughly “all the time” from those posts Beth makes in the monthly “kiln activity” threads…
Going forth now to unload the bisque kiln. I haven’t been back there, but a glaze kiln will quickly ensue. Get it glazed! I’ll be back there to help with glazing.
Unloaded on June 1
Loaded again on June 7
Unloaded June 9
Loaded June 16
Unloaded June 18
Loaded June 23
Unloaded June 25
Loaded June 25
Unloaded June 27
Loaded June 27
Unloaded June 28
Loaded June 28/29 (not noted, but inferred)
Started a glaze kiln last night. Right now it’s about 1000F, so it’ll probably be out tomorrow afternoon. I’ll load a bisque kiln right behind it.
I didn’t get Anita’s big bowl in. It was just a smidge too tall and wide.
Unloaded July 4
Loaded July 10
Unloaded July 12
MAINTENANCE
Loaded (not noted, inferred)
Unloaded July 15
Loaded (not noted, inferred)
Unloaded July 21
Loaded July 29
Unloaded July 31
Loaded July 31
Loaded August 1 (not noted, inferred)
The glaze kiln is running. Most things got in. About 1/2 of the pendants got in. There’s one piece that looked already glazed, so I’m going to need a story on it before it goes into a kiln.
Unloaded (not noted, inferred)
Loaded August 9 (inferred, noted as “running”)
Legend has it there’s the same and/or more information on FoulaceBook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/352881235071266/
And when that happens, you lose your piece of material, it doesnt destroy
our computer file When a piece blows up in the kiln, several hours of work
can be destroyed, Glaze can drip and ruin another piece and even ruin a
kiln shef
Let me share a little of the process, Lets say you are throwing a bowl. You come in
and stake your wet chlay and sit at a wheel and throw, When you get one you like, and that
may not be the first on, you take it off the wheel and place it to dry. Now you have to clean up the
wheels and that will take I am guessing at least 15 min (I hand build, so cleaning wheels is nto
something I do often)
Then in a couple of days you come back in and you trim your bowl and you clean up
again Now the piece can be dry some more and in a few days it can be bisqued
After it is gisqued, it is ready to glaze and since we have limited space, you may not be able to
easily, Clean up after glazing is not a huge amoung of work
If we had room for some test kilns, we could teach more folks how to fire
The big issue is that to fire, someone has to handle the work of others
I have a dog in this hunt.
I don’t have firm numbers because it has all been very conversational but I have spoken to several people who are interested in learning how to operate a kiln. They range from those who have no desire to do it themselves but want to have a better understanding of how everything works to some that want to ccasionally do interesting specialty firings. Now this isn’t a huge volume that would fill a weekly class, but there is interest in kiln operation. Whether they actually show up to a class is a whole different issue, heh.
That said, I don’t think someone that has taken three classes on kiln operation should be handling everyone’s work. Learning how to operate a digital controller kiln is dead easy. It’s all the attendant stuff others have mentioned in this thread that is tricky. A great swath of users are served by the current system, with consistent results and a minimum of damage. The big Paragon sees a lot of use and there are many happy faces collecting their wares. The kiln is a delightful workhorse.
Which is awesome, but there is room for other users to learn more, do more, make more. The firing schedule above is for one of three kilns. The other two are currently non-operational/accessible, the smaller Paragon and the Cress. With the Paragon especially, if we could get that kiln up and running, it could be made available (with whatever training, approval, scheduling and safeguards are deemed appropriate). It is of a size that’s more easily filled with your own work or rustle up fellow potters for a group firing. It could also be used for a class on loading/unloading and firing a digital kiln. All without disrupting the current flow of bisque and cone 6 glaze runs. The Cress is another matter altogether, it is a very simple, non-flexible kiln but if it works and we could get more information along with an ability to run it, it could possibly be useful. The Cress website seems to deny its existence, grin.
Well if the kilns are that special and need to be put so high up on a pedestal maybe we should get rid of them until we have an employee who can be paid to take care of other peoples work.
The argument here is that the tools we have at the space should be usable by everyone via some route of training. It definitely sounds like that’s not the plan for the kilns.
I really don’t understand the reluctance to have classes on the kiln.
From my point of view three classes can be taught on the kiln:
Level 1: How to prepare your pottery for the kiln. This would satisfy 80% of member needs.
Level 2: How to run the kiln under supervision. If offered monthly this would satisfy the requirement under proposed rules change.
Level 3: Independent kiln use. For individuals that have shown an interest in using the kiln independently.
We offer classes.
Offering classes satisfies the federal 501c3 purpose but it does not satisfy the reason the DMS was created. The DMS’s fundamental educational mission is to enable people to learn by doing/making. Erecting unnecessary barriers to doing/making undermines that educational mission.
Why We Do It
At Dallas Makerspace we believe that collaboration is a truly effective form of learning. To that end, our members and volunteers teach classes, hold unique educational events and collaborate on cool projects.
https://dallasmakerspace.org/
I really don’t understand the reluctance to have classes on the kiln.
From my point of view three classes can be taught on the kiln:
Level 1: How to prepare your pottery for the kiln. This would satisfy 80% of member needs.
These are the basic pottery classes we already teach. Probably satisfies 99% of member needs. Given the stuff I probably should’ve recycled instead of firing, 99% is probably it.
Ok, so the level 2 and 3 classes are all that would need to be added. With the level 2 class offered monthly and level 3 as needed.
In most colleges, using the kiln is something taught
in the senior years of a ceramics concentration
It is not taught after only a couple of semesters of ceramics
Our classes are not semester long classes with lecture and labe work
I would love to see us introduce mixing our own glazes, but that would
require more room
We have a limited ceramics program, limited mostly by space and location
We cant do reduction firing because of no gas kiln, or raku or pit firing either
We really don t get into slip casting either
Makerspace is a place for an intro to a lot of tools and skills, You can learn
some welding in metal shop, but you can t become a certified welder
Getting the smaller kilns working would be nice and that might lend itself to some filn classes
When I have work to be fired, I don t want it to be loaded by someone that is stil llearnign
I am on some clay lists and it is amazing how many potters will ruin a kiln load of their own work
when they start firing their own new kilns
We are not an university, I would love to see us get the funding that would allow us to offer more classes in many area
Why dont you watch when Beth says she is going to laod and show up and learn
Ignoring what is done in colleges is foolishness
YT can be helpful but I see far too much nonsense from froms folks
that think that they have a Google or YT Phd,
The huge backlog in folks needing training is in the wooshop, Why dont they just
tell folks to watch some YT s instead>
Should machine shop just rely on YTs for taining?>
You get a more even temp with a full kiln, that is what I have always been told by my ceramics professors
This is not true. A single piece in a huge kiln will get even temp if placed centrally. The real reason is a crass one. It is cheaper per unit for the kiln operator.
This is not true. A single piece in a huge kiln will get even temp if placed centrally. The real reason is a crass one. It is cheaper per unit for the kiln operator.
To be fair, it used to be somewhat more true than it is now. Before we let computers do the job, firing a low-density kiln was trickier - not impossible, but riskier.
Digital kiln controllers have changed a lot of things about traditional wisdom regarding kiln firings.
I agree with you about modern tech, but there is more than simple pragmatism involved in where these bits of advice came from.
There’s no technical reason for us to have a full-kiln requirement for the Paragon kilns at DMS. But a firing does cost some amount of money, and if someone wants to do an independent firing, I believe there should be a fee for that. I can understand why some other people are less comfortable with that, but I disagree with them.
3D, laser, welding, plasma cutter, metal lathe, vinyl cutter. I see the question pop up of “When can I get trained to use…”
The kilns have NEVER been on that list. NEVER.
So… What do you think this thread is about?
Also, please stop assuming that none of us have ever lost anything in a bad firing, or that we don’t know ceramics. Really just please stop assuming that you know more than we do.
We do need to get the smaller kiln on line
there is still the problem of tying up a kiln, a tool
for 24 to 36 hours for one person
Could someone leave a car on the lift on in a bay for that long?
Scheduling is definitely an issue with independent firings.
Having more than one kiln available would definitely go a long way toward alleviating that issue.
Honestly, I don’t think there are going to be a whole lot of people doing it, and even those that do, it won’t be very often.
But having the liberty to do it occasionally is a marked contrast to what we have right now.