Electronics is better than ever, can we improve it?

Electronics
#1

Hi everyone,

While reading the electronics equipment thread, I started to respond when I realized I was getting off topic and decided to start a new thread.

I feel that electronics has been through a bit of a rough patch, but has greatly improved from the old space do to the work of many members and the help of the committee head. At the old space it was hard to do any project in the electronics room, now we have semi clean benches to sit at with working soldering irons and solder. For me this is a step up as I would often bring my bench iron and solder at the space. Most of the work I see going through the electronics room is Soldering and Assembly. That also happens to be the most accessible part of electronics to most members.

I feel like the push for more cutting edge scopes and testing equipment is a bit before the horse. Yes a few members will use it, but will it bring electronics back into the focus of the general membership? I think the move to make at this point is to get soldering and assembly tools to better equip the room and to clear out the components. If we had a matching set of adjustable hakko 951 soldering irons and tips for the room that would be great. then we move into getting more of the consumables, Flux pens, tweezers, wire spools, ect. Iā€™d love to see a stand up tool box with all the little tools and supplies in it, as apposed to the individual stations having their own tools. That way all tool are in one location and members donā€™t have to walk from station to station stealing tools.

I know this is going to ruffle the feathers of the members that are more advanced and feel like this is a step back. I think in the long run this can help your advanced goals as well. If you gain the focus of the general membership you do have to deal with more problems, but you also gain funding. Funding not just from the board but the members that want to help a cause, I managed to raise $500 for a Ping Pong table in 2 days based of the support of members. This was no small feet as the board and other members didnā€™t support the idea. But accessibility is what brought that support. Make electronics accessible to the masses of the group and you can wrangle support even when the board doesnā€™t have the money to spend.

Soldering projects should be something that we are doing on a weekly basis(Thursday nights), I would give over $5 to $10 a week to put together different little soldering projects like our DMS led badge, building a flashlight, surface mount throw lights, ect. The littel dumb things like that can be money makers for the electronics room. But, we have to have the kits on hand.

That is my two cents, please correct me where Iā€™m wrong and enlighten me with your own opinions. My view may be off because soldering and assembly is also the level that Iā€™m at with electronics so please keep that in mindā€¦

Equipment for electronics lab
#2

We had planned to buy a roll around toolbox but our committee money got spent on shelving. We discussed having a couple of shelves and got 5! Then we got sidetracked by the electrical situation in DMS.

All the donated parts were to go onto spinning racks but they were never finished. Instead they were going to get dumped into one big box or tote but I guess the compromise was to palletize half of the parts and then stack the rest into the middle of the room.

What we discussed that we didnā€™t want to happened had happened in that now the room is mostly clogged with crud.

Now the question is what do we want to do? I understand that a lot of the people who were going to get it into shape have had job/career issues or have since quit.

How about having a restart meeting to make a short top 5 steps to get the area into better shape and also include as many members into basic electronics skills.

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#3

Good idea Ken. Letā€™s set up a reboot meeting and indoctrinate new/interested parties into the fold.

#4

I did not attend, but according to the calendar they had a meeting on Saturday the 13th. I have no idea what was discussed etc.

#5

The electronics room often seems to be the first stop along the open house tour. To remove the pallets and middle room clutter, would it help obtain funds if a small-part storage solution could be sourced that is not only functional, but space saving and aesthetically pleasing at the same time?

As new members walk in to the space for the first time:

  1. It could produce a ā€œwow!ā€ effect.
  2. Then in turn garner more interest of new members.
  3. Thereby creating more interest in classes, this then would provide more honorarium funds for equipment.

I am one myself who will want to brush up (take classes) and improve my electronics basics once I get through my wood shop basics. I have plans for DIY custom small plant LED grow lights, a thermo-electrically cooled humidor with air circulation, a ā€œdeterrentā€ system for my cats (for my wife), DIY weather station, solar circuits, RFID projects, etc., etc., etc.; but at the moment, as a new member, itā€™s not a seemingly educational or inviting space.

It would take an effort to get organized. I am unable to lead an effort (Iā€™ve already volunteered to help with another project at the moment), but Iā€™m willing to put grunt labor where my mouth is and help out on scheduled organizational days.

Try looking through the links below of a more commercial storage/sorting company. With the limited space, I am a fan of the wall mounted part holders. They could be color coded and labeled per a sorting system.

Even if whatā€™s needed/wanted for the space could not be immediately obtained, outlining the room (literally, in 3D drawings), and documenting the needs, wants and plans for the next 6 months, supplemented with a class schedule to bring in funds, could really lend a hand to the efforts.

http://www.akro-mils.com/1

http://www.akro-mils.com/Products/Industrial/Racks-Hanging-Systems/ReadySpace-Storage-System/ReadySpace-Storage-System-Wall-Unit.aspx1

http://www.akro-mils.com/Products/Industrial/Racks-Hanging-Systems/Louvered-Panels-Bench-Racks-and-Floor-Racks.aspx1

http://www.akro-mils.com/Products/Industrial/Cabinet-Systems.aspx

#6

So, for soldering irons specifically we have Metcals. Nothing is better than Metcal, period. Hakko doesnā€™t even come close. At the last committee meeting we discussed building a shelving system to contain the parts. Iā€™m waiting to hear back about how much that will cost before we proceed.

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#7

Thanks for the comments everyone.

As for Soldering Irons, I agree Metcals are awesome! But, they are very different from the irons that none electronics members have been introduced to usually. Iā€™ve seen members staring at the black box wondering why the iron isnā€™t getting hot even though they turned on the switch in the back, not knowing about the switch on the top. Iā€™ve also seen members staring at the soldering station wondering how to set the temperature. Maybe, we could hang a little sign on the soldering station explaining the simple use of the Metcals and why they are so special. Just to make them more friendly to the uninformed.

Now to ruffle more feathers, Should we just trash the components?
Please donā€™t take this personal Iā€™m not trying to attack anyone, just bringing light to one of the elephants in the electronics room.

A quick pro and con(if you have more to add PM me and Iā€™ll edit my post and add them)

Pros:

  • a source of inspiration
  • The components are free
  • You might be able to find a part for a project (convenient after stores are closed)
  • They are FREE! (said twice for good measure)
  • They have value
    Cons:
  • They take up a lot of room
  • They are cumbersome to sort
  • We need to setup an inventory system and keep it up to date to make them useful
  • We have to buy/build a storage system
  • They are an eyesore in the room
  • Not convenient to find a particular part

What do you all think? I know this will ruffle feathers and Iā€™m not attacking anyone, none of the issues electronics is facing is the fault of a single member. Electronics has been a part of DMS from the start and thus it just has more baggage, it maybe time to get rid of some of that baggage.

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#8

Personally I am strongly opposed to getting rid of the components. I understand that some effort has gone into developing an inventory system which will make them more useful. I strongly suggest that we take some steps to put that system into effect.
Having components available is certainly convenient, when we consider that many members are present at times when places like Tannerā€™s are closed. More than that, parts bins can be a source of inspiration.

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#9

I agree that the mound in the middle of the room is in the way and unattractive. However, Iā€™m a packrat. I scrounge through alleys for spare parts. I would hate to see anything potentially useful thrown away.

If I knew how to sort the components, I might be able to help, on those occasions when Iā€™m physically at the space.

#10

From a strictly aesthetics perspective and from a tour guide perspective the parts are extremely frustrating to move around I have had people slip on them and there are just boxes all over the floor.

As someone who has been around a while we have had the same parts for the past 4 years. As a personal opinion I would have much more value gained from a clean work environment with working equipment than a supply of components that I would never be able to find something and I would never find any more as most are extremely out dated components. I would just buy from Tanners and or Mouser so that I get the parts I need.

So I would be all about getting rid of them because The value they have is not worth the value lost of working in a clean environment and in itā€™s current state itā€™s a Safety Risk on Thursday Nights I pack 30-40 people in there and it is extremely frustrating when people are stepping over boxes of junk that will never get used.

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#11

On another personal note I noticed the parts in the workshop have made the Mounted Fire extinguisher in the workshop non accessible.

So donā€™t let this stop in just parts in the electronics room there is a whole other pallet that is in the way in the back

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#12

Hey Gang,

How about advertising a fire sale to electronics hobbyists everywhere and then take that money and put it towards buying other equipment or components?

Or would Tannerā€™s be interested in taking the bulk of the items and giving us a form of store credit? (yes, I realize the irony of potentially buying back what you gave someone at several times the price)

That way, they are not wasted in the trash and funding is acquired.

The immediate question is how the non-profit status of DMS fits into this kind of arrangement - would it be a violation?

JAG

#13

Iā€™m conflicted on the tower of components. On the one hand, they DO take
up space. On the other, I couldnā€™t have finished my most recent project
without them. And oddly enough, the disorganized black boxes are easier to
look through than the endless tiny drawers and tackle boxes of other
components weā€™ve had for years.

#14

So Iā€™ll throw in as I went through a BUNCH of the bins the other night looking for some components. It seems that we have TONS of certain things, and nothing in what we actually needā€¦ and usually repeated in different boxes.

This means that we need to do 2 things:

  1. Organize what we have into a usable system
  2. Get rid of the components we either donā€™t need, or simply have too many of.

I understand the idea of having a few components of each type - but do we really need a bag of 800 resistors all of the same size? how about bringing those numbers down to 10-15 or so of each?

Personally, I like those component bins that have 20-25 drawers on them as they are compact and easy to get in and out of - unlike the cardboard boxes stuffed with bags.

In a prior life, I was a WCM guru and really focused on 5S practices (Sort Set Shine Standardize & Sustain). The first S, Sorting is always the most important, and I think itā€™ll be easy to do if we put several of the drawer bins on one of the racks and keep things together. Then label each bin and fill them as neededā€¦ once they are full, the components go into an overflow area, and they are given a week to be picked up, sold, or usedā€¦or recycled. If a bin is ever empty, or someone uses several, its easy to put a list together and buy them as needed from Tanner.

I would be willing to spend an hour or two getting started tomorrow morning if D Jackson or D Feynes says ā€˜Go.ā€™

On another note, do we have a small ticker type label maker somewhere in the space?

-Ian

#15

Lets try and turn are concerns into a rational list to help make this discussion lead to a solution that the group can agree on. That way we donā€™t burn out the obvious energy our members have. If we make a rational decision before jumping in head strong I think we will be more likely to be able to follow it through.

Since the Pros and Cons thing didnā€™t work would you prefer a value based method?

We can estimate: how many hours we think it would take to build an inventory system; how many ours it would take to sort the components; how much it would cost to get the shelving/ storage solution; how long it would take to implement the solution; and how long it would take to find a particular part when the system is running. Then we compare that to what we estimate the value of the components are. Not just in real dollars but also value to the space.

I think if we as a group estimate each of these point together we should have some idea of cost and value.

Do you guys agree?

#16

Iā€™m going to reiterate my earlier point. Sort, organize and color code the components storage into some sort of ā€œwowā€ configuration.

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#17

I resign my position as Electronics Committee chair, effective immediately.

#18

I came in at the end of the last meeting so I donā€™t know much of what went on. There was a discussion between 2 or 3 people about putting a door in at the back of the room and taking 10 or 15 feet of the break room for a storage room and putting up a wall or at least a partition. The problem with that many parts is that any kind of organization is going to require more floor space. Iā€™m personally in the hoarder camp so this looks like the kind of solution that would be necessary to keep the parts.

Russell Ward

#19

DJ, we are not attacking you. You have done a great job with the limitations you run into as head of the committee. We have moved forward miles from what we had in the old space. We have a usable room now, it was hard to say that at the old space. You righted the boat and set it on a positive path. The issue now is where should that path be going? I hope you reconsider stepping down, or at least try and help migrate to a new head of electronics.

We are better than electronics has ever been. But, what is our next goal?

We have had the goal of running a parts repository for YEARS. It hasnā€™t been an aid to the electronics committee as a whole from a general member stand point. Yes some members have pulled parts from it, but are they just the exceptions to the rule? A much larger percentage of DMS will use the soldering irons and benches in the electronics room than will ever pull a part out of the components area. I know the same can be said for the oscilloscopes and other testing equipment, but their foot print is so much smaller that the cost in space and money offset it.

The components setup will cost a lot more in time and space than anything else in the room. What makes it worth all that time, energy, space, and in the end money? The parts are free and once they are sorted and organized they would be worth more sold off than kept when you think of the space that they will take. If we properly sort and shelve the items we would probably lose 1/4 to 1/3 of the electronics room. Would you say that 25% of what can be done in the electronics area should be holding parts?

#20

We had a nice off-line discussion and hopefully came up with an idea for the abundance of electronic parts.

A lot of the resistance (pun intended) to tossing or selling the parts is that they are a value for members. Why buy what you already have?

I have witnessed a couple of times where a spare part helped complete a project late at night or on the weekend when Tanners was closed. There was not another way to get the part needed at the time. Also with that I saw that it often took a massive effort to find said parts. Without organization the parts are pretty much worthless if you cannot find what you need, when you need it.

Our solution would be to sell off the parts BUT sell them to members. How about we let DMS members make their own grab bags for a donation towards the electronics room? SparkFun does this themselves. It is not worth it to them to sort and re-organize parts even if they are worth $5/each.

Say a bag full of whatever parts you can fit into a quart ziplock bag for $5. We can then apply the funds raised for the tools we need and the members feel that the parts were not sold out from under them. Members choose what is valuable to them and can use. The one caveat is they have to LEAVE the electronics room. You can put them in your personal storage bin or take them home but they must go!

Problem Solved, what do you think?

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