Authorization for tools: Strings attached?

[zmetzing]

Continuing the discussion from Impromptu Lift Class Tonight 9PM:

Impromptu Lift Class Tonight 9PM

ke5bud wrote:
For this class it is a specific user/class fee for using the lift that every person who wants to use the lift has to pay to the committee.

Now there’s an interesting point: Can committees force someone to fork over money to use a DMS resource? If I am trained to train others on equipment and offer my training up for free, are my trainees “authorized” after the class?

Let me clarify my question a bit further in this topic.

Let’s say committee X has tool Y, and the committee charges $2 for any member to be trained on it and “authorized” to use it. However, many people can learn how to train other members for tool Y, and one decides to give that training away for free. Let’s call this generous individual Q. Are members trained on tool Y by Q “authorized” to use it, since they didn’t may committee X the $2 fee?

[MathewBusby]

Likewise, could a member charge a fee for a class that is generally offered for free?

[jast]

I’m pretty sure this is “yes”.
see https://www.dallasmakerspace.org/teach

3rd Parties / Contractors
We allow 3rd parties to hold classes/workshops at the Dallas Makerspace.
There is no fee to host your event, just submit a request! We prefer
that events be free and open to the public, but this is not required.
Please see the Rules and Policies for more information.

[engpin]

To my understanding no they are not authorized

[Cairenn_Day]

I think that I heard that the lift fee is somehow linked to the insurance costs of having it.

[Photomancer]

Most committees have Train the Trainer classes. Trainers are authorized to train others and can certify-annoint-bless-whatever the person trained to use it. Just being trained and showing someone how to use it, even if done properly, doesn’t mean the person newly “trained” is now authorized to use it.

I believe the new Maker Manager System will have fields that show what a person is trained in and only trainers will be authorized to check the box that they are trained. Oh the system is designed to progress to that point someday.

[zmetzing]

Just being trained and showing someone how to use it, even if done properly, doesn’t mean the person newly “trained” is now authorized to use it.

Understandable, and that’s why I put this text in my original hypothetical question:

However, many people can learn how to train other members for tool Y,

[zmetzing]

I think that I heard that the lift fee is somehow linked to the insurance costs of having it.

Could it then be argued that our DMS dues cover the insurance costs as a whole?

It is arguably more expensive to insure DIY woodworkers, auto mechanics, machine operators, and welders than it is to insure DIY creative artists, AV producers, or electronics tinkers. Should the former pay a larger fee than the latter?

[TLAR]

The lift fee was the only way that automotive could raise money - most all other committees raise them through classes of some sort.

A one time fee of $50 for a lifetime of use of the lift isn’t bad - if you want a shock "at the cost of using the lift at the space - check with other places that rent automotive lifts for a comparison.

Even the “self help / do it yourself” garages on ANY military base are not cheaper than my old lift at the Dallas Makerspace.

[zmetzing]

While I agree that the cost of the class pales in comparison to the benefit provided, I’m just putting out the question in general before we start down the slippery slope of “all tools require a $50 class before use”. At that point, DMS becomes a lot less interesting to those who might join but don’t have the $$$ to get “training” for all the tools they need to do something useful.

(I’ll be paying my $50 here soon, but I gotta find some time to take the class.)

[zmetzing]

The lift fee was the only way that automotive could raise money

Ah, and following up on this specific point: The new board should start looking into alternative insurance carriers who don’t have the ludicrous requirement for any automotive class to be taught by an ASE mechanic. Then they could start getting people to teach classes and get the honorariums.

[bgangwere]

At the risk of throwing Brandon under the bus: I believe the fee is a deterrent to keep people from joining DMS for a month, trashing the auto space, and quitting. Which has happened.
Also: I think the committee has the ability to assign whatever restrictions they want w/in their space, and if “you must pay a one time fee of $50 to use a piece of equipment” is one of them, so be it. They are responsible for the space, equipment, maintenance, etc. Not DMS as a whole.

[jast]

The new board should start looking into alternative insurance carriers who don’t have the ludicrous requirement for any automotive class to be taught by an ASE mechanic

Rumor held that the current policy does NOT have this requirement. Isn’t there a link for that, somewhere?

[zmetzing]

Rumor held that the current policy does NOT have this requirement. Isn’t there a link for that, somewhere?

If this is the case, I’ll start teaching classes on oil changes, tire rotation, etc. Simple stuff that everyone needs to know how to do but have never been shown/encouraged to do on their own. My standard policy of donating the honorarium back to the committee will apply.

[engpin]

Also: I think the committee has the ability to assign whatever restrictions they want w/in their space, and if “you must pay a one time fee of $50 to use a piece of equipment” is one of them, so be it. They are responsible for the space, equipment, maintenance, etc. Not DMS as a whole.

so does that include storage in that area?

[bgangwere]

This road’s been traveled. I’m sure they would appreciate any help in finding a cheaper insurance carrier, but they have enough on their plates w/o tasking them w/ obligatory Sisyphean tasks.

[TLAR]

The new board should start looking into alternative insurance carriers who don’t have the ludicrous requirement for any automotive class to be taught by an ASE mechanic

Rumor held that the current policy does NOT have this requirement. Isn’t there a link for that, somewhere?

The current policy allows for auto repair
ASE is a joke except for the the American car manufacturers.
Brian above is correct - the fee is like a “cover charge” - and even though I am still a car guy - I certainly don’t want to the automotive dept or ANY area of the Space abused by joining for a month and destroying the fantastic equipment / assets that every one has access to.

[zmetzing]

This road’s been traveled. I’m sure they would appreciate any help in finding a cheaper insurance carrier, but they have enough on their plates w/o tasking them w/ obligatory Sisyphean tasks.

It has indeed, but they ran for the office, and the problem (apparently) remains after the efforts of the previous board.

No guts, no glory.

[bgangwere]

so does that include storage in that area?

Yes, per the restrictions on preferential personal storage the board put in place last year.

[Cairenn_Day]

Fired arts tends to ask for $10 fee for most classes. Projects there need space to dry, then they have to fired, then glazed and fired again. Kilns are not cheap to run.

I find classes here to be VERY reasonable priced. Sometimes there are formulatic classes at craft stores in the price range,